(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:2]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]TM[10800]OT[10/600 Canadian]
PW[Matthew Cocke]PB[Matthew Macfadyen]WR[5d]BR[6d]DT[2002-09-22]GC[This game was relayed live on the KGS Go Server. This is the version of the game record from the server with all the comments from spectators as the game happened.Many thanks to them for their cooperation.]EV[British Go Championship Title Match]RO[2]PC[The Kiseido Go Server (KGS) at http://kgs.kiseido.com/]US[Tim Hunt]C[NOTE: This is the version of the game record saved from KGS. It contains all of the comments from spectators as the game was in progress.

phenomene [2d?\]: hi BritChamp, thank you for broadcasting the game
BigDoug [24k?\]: yes, thanks very much
Evercat [?\]: Cheers Tim :)
]RE[B+Resign]
;B[pe]CR[pe]C[minismurf [4d?\]: who is playing with the black smurfs?
]
;W[cd]CR[cd]C[phenomene [2d?\]: MacFadyen should be black
phenomene [2d?\]: he was white in the 1st game
BritChamp [?\]: Yes, MM black
Siberiak [4k\]: what is result 1st game?
]
;B[co]CR[co]C[phenomene [2d?\]: MacFadyen won by 12,5
Evercat [?\]: Macfadyen won...
freestone [1d\]: Matthew won :-)
Siberiak [4k\]: thx
BritChamp [?\]: Get player info on BritChamp, and look at the URL
cafard [7d\]: and who is white ?
]
;W[qp]CR[qp]C[BigDoug [24k?\]: i'm only a beginner, but do many openings start with the first move for black?
phenomene [2d?\]: black likes outside corner moves at the beginning
Evercat [?\]: Matthew Cocke 5d
]
;B[dq]CR[dq]C[cafard [7d\]: who is the commentator ?
phenomene [2d?\]: you :)
voldemort [-\]: you, cafard :)
phenomene [2d?\]: guo juan will comment this afternoon
phenomene [2d?\]: they have 3 hours each, so it is a long game
]
;W[nq]CR[nq]C[Muttley [3k\]: Matthew Cocke is Black?
phenomene [2d?\]: no Mut
Muttley [3k\]: lol
phenomene [2d?\]: just the opposite, he is white :)
cafard [7d\]: r10
Muttley [3k\]: I was close
]
;B[pc]CR[pc]C[MacNala [16k\]: This game record is going to be interesting
phenomene [2d?\]: 4 shimari?
Muttley [3k\]: F17
Muttley [3k\]: K17
Muttley [3k\]: looks like Shusaku - Ota Yuzo game
]
;W[qj]CR[qj]C[cafard [7d\]: k3
Muttley [3k\]: allowing black two shimari, no komi games
cafard [7d\]: k3 is mandatory
aussiemate [9k\]: who is which colour stone?
nakade [4d\]: Hello to all the UK players from Richard Hunter in Japan
aussiemate [9k\]: hi Rich
phenomene [2d?\]: k3 direction at least, maybe k4 for o5 follow-up
PHiddink [6k\]: hello 
BigDoug [24k?\]: macfayden is black, matthew cocke is white
cafard [7d\]: b can kakari, but he has to finish with sente
Muttley [3k\]: Hey Richard!
museone [7d?\]: or k4
cafard [7d\]: because if he permits w k3, game will be difficult for him
nakade [4d\]: Hi Muttley
]
;B[fd]CR[fd]C[Muttley [3k\]: white can tenuki?
phenomene [2d?\]: high moves, this is black style
]
;W[df]CR[df]C[aussiemate [9k\]: w can always tenuki
museone [7d?\]: I think so, mut
aussiemate [9k\]: not always a good idea, though
phenomene [2d?\]: no f16 is a bit of a kikashi
tinhore [3d\]: who is playing?
Muttley [3k\]: Matthew McFaddyen - Matthew Cocke
aussiemate [9k\]: the 2 English Matthews
Muttley [3k\]: 1st Game, Brit Ch.
phenomene [2d?\]: 2d game
tinhore [3d\]: b? w?
Muttley [3k\]: is it?
Muttley [3k\]: oh well
aussiemate [9k\]: MacFadyean 
Muttley [3k\]: who won first.
]
;B[jq]CR[jq]C[phenomene [2d?\]: 1st game wasn't broadcasted
aussiemate [9k\]: and Croke
cafard [7d\]: hehe
aussiemate [9k\]: at last K3
cafard [7d\]: c10 now :)
tinhore [3d\]: these are top 2 players of british?
Muttley [3k\]: if you don't count Muttley
Muttley [3k\]: yes  ;-)
Muttley [3k\]: interesting actually watching a game at this pace
Evercat [?\]: Not quite... but the championship isn't necessarily the top 2
cafard [7d\]: too slow :)
phenomene [2d?\]: they play too fast for the time limits
Cirrion [16k\]: it gives time to speculate
Muttley [3k\]: but we get to think about more about the reasons for these moves
aussiemate [9k\]: a bit rapid, compared to professionals
Muttley [3k\]: pros play 3 hr games, aussie
cafard [7d\]: i bet on c10
aussiemate [9k\]: this is a 3 hour game
phenomene [2d?\]: c10 is commensense, agree
]
;W[id]CR[id]C[Cirrion [16k\]: thez seem to be plazing fairly low
Muttley [3k\]: lol
cafard [7d\]: of, if pheno agree with, it should be a bad move :)
Muttley [3k\]: because this is a big decision, Cirrion
cafard [7d\]:  see, they don't play 2d move :)
Muttley [3k\]: whether to disturb the flow of the game or not
phenomene [2d?\]: I hadn't the time to say a pincer was attractive too :)
]
;B[ff]CR[ff]C[aussiemate [9k\]: i think J16 is correct
Cirrion [16k\]: why would a high move disturb the flow?
aussiemate [9k\]: but I am only a 9k ^_^
Muttley [3k\]: Separating stones
Muttley [3k\]: now white has two separated groups
Muttley [3k\]: with open skirt for top left shimari
Muttley [3k\]: sort of
aussiemate [9k\]: and W doesn't have 2 separated groups?
Muttley [3k\]: (this is, of course, a 30k's view of things)
phenomene [2d?\]: c10 still available :)
Muttley [3k\]: white is the one with the separated groups  :-)
PHiddink [6k\]: this is like watching a movie with your buddies this is very cool
BigDoug [24k?\]: what do you think was the point of J16 instead of C10?
]
;W[dh]CR[dh]C[aussiemate [9k\]: exactly
Muttley [3k\]: to disrupt black's development
Muttley [3k\]: so playing the hasami is a big decision
Muttley [3k\]: Cirrion  :-)
aussiemate [9k\]: could not allow B at K18
phenomene [2d?\]: l16 now?
Muttley [3k\]: cafard?
cafard [7d\]: yes ?
minismurf [4d?\]: k18?
Muttley [3k\]: next white move please  :-)
Muttley [3k\]: lol
cafard [7d\]: j14
Muttley [3k\]: or black
cafard [7d\]: b j14
aussiemate [9k\]: M16
cafard [7d\]: b should take sente to play  c10
cafard [7d\]: m16 is wrong direction
Muttley [3k\]: forcing white to play J14 is not a good idea, is it?
Muttley [3k\]: drive towards thickness .....
BigDoug [24k?\]: b G12?
Muttley [3k\]: J16 is not a Shusaku move, imho
cafard [7d\]: the natural flow is : B j14, w M17, B c10
phenomene [2d?\]: f16 wasn't Shusaku too, Mutt :)
Muttley [3k\]: lol
Muttley [3k\]: Ota Yuzo is black  ;-)
Muttley [3k\]: or white  ^_^
phenomene [2d?\]: black is more in his style
phenomene [2d?\]: and white in Shusaku's
Muttley [3k\]: mmmmm
Muttley [3k\]: hmmmmm
BigDoug [24k?\]: could black play something around N14 to keep white boxed in and separated?
int0x21 [12k\]: who is black and who is white ?
minismurf [4d?\]: n14?
minismurf [4d?\]: wow!
phenomene [2d?\]: n14 would be a very vague move
Muttley [3k\]: capping is the natural move, Doug
phenomene [2d?\]: no effect on the opponent
BigDoug [24k?\]: sorry, these are 24k ideas 8-)
Muttley [3k\]: don't apologies, we all learn by asking questions
minismurf [4d?\]: n14 doesn't make any territory
minismurf [4d?\]: and it doesn't attack
Muttley [3k\]: R12 might be a consideration
cafard [7d\]: who bet on my j14 ?
BigDoug [24k?\]: yes, that's very true.  thanks for the advice
BigDoug [24k?\]: i haven't quite mastered keeping sente yet 8-)
Muttley [3k\]: but forcing white to strengthen, probably bad
xor [3k\]: lol
Muttley [3k\]: lol
]
;B[ld]CR[ld]C[Evercat [?\]: doh
BigDoug [24k?\]: uh oh, tea break
cafard [7d\]: ah
Honte [13k\]: i would like an extension towards c10 or somewhere around
phenomene [2d?\]: so bad direction? :)
Muttley [3k\]: over concentrated
cafard [7d\]: ask guo this afternoon :)
Muttley [3k\]: lol
cafard [7d\]: F16 and f14 will have trouble now
Muttley [3k\]: J14?
phenomene [2d?\]: guo says : to have an weak group alone is not funny, so pincer and creat a weak group for your opponent too
Cirrion [16k\]: hm, I had wondered about N16 but wJ14 looks nice now
aussiemate [9k\]: did i say M 14 or didn't I?
cafard [7d\]: yes, b played a 9k move :)
]
;W[if]CR[if]C[Muttley [3k\]: the case for the prosecution rests, aussiemate  ;-)
Hu [9k\]: I resemble that remark, cafard ^^
phenomene [2d?\]: cafard, I think c10 is no longer so attractive, so I disagree with your j14 direction
aussiemate [9k\]: now, of course, J14 is the only move
BigDoug [24k?\]: aussie, did you see that collingwood made the grand final?  the world is a better place for it
cafard [7d\]: c10 is very big
Muttley [3k\]: but black does not get to play it
cafard [7d\]: double extension/double wings formation
phenomene [2d?\]: but white's c16 group is storng now
]
;B[fh]CR[fh]C[Muttley [3k\]: Mind you, black does take strategic risks
phenomene [2d?\]: now c10 and j12 are miai for black, aren't they?
pdcawley [8k\]: Any idea who is who?
Muttley [3k\]: scroll up
voldemort [-\]: they are Matthew
aussiemate [9k\]: Matthew MacFadyean is Black
pdcawley [8k\]: it fell off the buffer.
BigDoug [24k?\]: by following black on both sides, does the J16 group do much for whilte?
Evercat [?\]: Black - Matthew Macfadyen 6d (reigning champ) White - Matthew Cocke 5d
aussiemate [9k\]: British Champion
pdcawley [8k\]: Ta.
aussiemate [9k\]: 6 dane
Muttley [3k\]: lol
Muttley [3k\]: quite a party
aussiemate [9k\]: Matthew Croke is White 5 dan
]
;W[ih]CR[ih]C[crux [8k\]: britchamp, i hope you will save this game in your info?  i have to leave soon(ish)...
freestone [1d\]: Cocke, not croke
cafard [7d\]: f16, f14, F1é are dame moves
aussiemate [9k\]: thanx
LazyDog [11k\]: Do either of them play on KGS?
cafard [7d\]: j16, j1' j1é controlled the center
Muttley [3k\]: when did the UK change to 6.5 komi?
Evercat [?\]: it's 5.5 isn't it?
Muttley [3k\]: check the game info
museone [7d?\]: w has better off
phenomene [2d?\]: hey, you're becoming quite convincing, cafard :)
BigDoug [24k?\]: is b D9 a possibility now?
cafard [7d\]: t''es d'accord avec moi maintenant ?
phenomene [2d?\]: sur le coup des dame, oui
phenomene [2d?\]: mais j14 ça reste un peu mou je toruve
aussiemate [9k\]: o dear
Evercat [?\]: ah it really is 6.5
aussiemate [9k\]: those frogs are croaking again
cafard [7d\]: j14 est un coup de pro :)
BigDoug [24k?\]: i knew that i should have paid more attention in the italian classes
museone [7d?\]: j14 is normal
Muttley [3k\]: white wants to keep black weak
Gabriel [10k\]: vic1000 is online . if we get him , we can kick guo over board ;) just kidding :)
cafard [7d\]: b has no choice now :  f10, inducing  W c9
minismurf [4d?\]: but macfayden knew all of this when playing M16
minismurf [4d?\]: he must have some kind of plan
MacNala [16k\]: so what comes after is more important
touyo [15k\]: when can Black play c17?
aussiemate [9k\]: did not want W to play there
PHiddink [6k\]: the weakest group on the board is f12 group isnt it?
wicket [1k\]: yeah got to remember MM isn't actually a 9k :)
]
;B[ei]CR[ei]C[wicket [1k\]: he'll have had a reason for m16
aussiemate [9k\]: wot's wrong with 9k?
pdcawley [8k\]: /me has played MM a couple of times... I *never* know what's going on.
Honte [13k\]: Soooo Kageyama...^^ LITFOG
LazyDog [11k\]: Leaning attack to build momentum?
BigDoug [24k?\]: wD11, bH10?
Muttley [3k\]: white has an ocean to the right
]
;W[cj]CR[cj]
;B[dk]CR[dk]C[minismurf [4d?\]: white will cap at J10?
minismurf [4d?\]: is this a MM move?
minismurf [4d?\]: i mean, black
Cirrion [16k\]: MM being?
crux [8k\]: mm == mymaster :-)
aussiemate [9k\]: Black
minismurf [4d?\]: mm is the black player :)
Hu [9k\]: MM = Cornel Burzo too
aussiemate [9k\]: W d7?
aussiemate [9k\]: or is that a bit dangerous?
Muttley [3k\]: here, MM = Matthew McFaddyen
aussiemate [9k\]: i only ask as a 9ker
Cirrion [16k\]: wG11?
aussiemate [9k\]: good point
Muttley [3k\]: shoulder hit is interesting- ambitious, looks to me
BigDoug [24k?\]: wD10, bE10, wE17?
MacNala [16k\]: I think W will play on the right around o13
minismurf [4d?\]: but allowing b c9 seems silly?
aussiemate [9k\]: Q13?
Cirrion [16k\]: if wC9 bH11 or so?
museone [7d?\]: c9, and j9
]
;W[ip]CR[ip]C[aussiemate [9k\]: remember "the good point and the bad point are next to esch other"
MacNala [16k\]: oooh?
cafard [7d\]: very good
aussiemate [9k\]: Ancient Go proverb
phenomene [2d?\]: big extension from j12 :-)
Cirrion [16k\]: I was only 9 intersections off the mark .)
aussiemate [9k\]: not bad for a beginner
touyo [15k\]: W C10, B D10, W E9, Black wants to play D7?
Muttley [3k\]: in that case, Cirrion, pick K10 next time  :-)
Muttley [3k\]: always be pretty close
PHiddink [6k\]: hi bigdoug
BigDoug [24k?\]: g'day P
phenomene [2d?\]: j4 is very nice, hard to deal with it
aussiemate [9k\]: K4
phenomene [2d?\]: destroying black moyo in advance
Muttley [3k\]: Shuko style
int0x21 [12k\]: who is white and who is black ?
child [6k\]: what if b simply ignores
minismurf [4d?\]: 2 hours time limit would be better :)
BigDoug [24k?\]: macfayden black, cocke white
Muttley [3k\]: J3 is something?
int0x21 [12k\]: thanks
museone [7d?\]: k4
Evercat [?\]: if black ignires then isn't white J4 good?
phenomene [2d?\]: then j3 is very big, j4 shoulder hit can't be ignored
aussiemate [9k\]: come on
aussiemate [9k\]: i said that first ^_^
]
;B[jp]CR[jp]
;W[io]CR[io]C[aussiemate [9k\]: now what is good shape for B in this situation?
Hu [9k\]: Aussiemate gets the prize for K4.
phenomene [2d?\]: h2
]
;B[jo]CR[jo]
;W[in]CR[in]C[aussiemate [9k\]: L7?
]
;B[hr]CR[hr]C[cafard [7d\]: fanfan ne vient pas?
phenomene [2d?\]: il joue
cafard [7d\]: ah
museone [7d?\]: k6
aussiemate [9k\]: just looks a bit low
child [6k\]: w got 2 weak groups now?
cafard [7d\]: c9 first
BigDoug [24k?\]: given that black's lower left looks solid, is there a point to the white wall at J4?
phenomene [2d?\]: k6 is worth a thousand gold pieces :)
aussiemate [9k\]: L7 is better, i think
child [6k\]: ah magic comes into play
minismurf [4d?\]: L7 is not better
MacNala [16k\]: with B n4 to follow
freestone [1d\]: j4 group stops B getting a bit territory, BigDoug
Hu [9k\]: K6 looks nice.
minismurf [4d?\]: L7 leaves bad aji
aussiemate [9k\]: for B that is
aussiemate [9k\]: if W allows him
minismurf [4d?\]: oh
minismurf [4d?\]: and why would w allow that :)
aussiemate [9k\]: which he wont
minismurf [4d?\]: :))
cafard [7d\]: w k6 promising
aussiemate [9k\]: yes
aussiemate [9k\]: has to prevent my move
ericboesch [4k\]: BigDoug, playing j4 next to a stone at k3 is not meant to take territory, it is meant to keep black's territory from getting too big
child [6k\]: if w c9 then b k6?
minismurf [4d?\]: black will win by 10 points anyway? :)
BigDoug [24k?\]: i see.  thanks to you and free
aussiemate [9k\]: have you counted?
minismurf [4d?\]: what is macfayden's strong side?
cafard [7d\]: in this game, b's territory maxi 40 points :)
phenomene [2d?\]: fight
cafard [7d\]: b has no more potential
jerokfor [2d?\]: ?
]
;W[ej]CR[ej]C[BigDoug [24k?\]: can black play at G9 to threaten the cut, then move down to G7 and get a big bite of territory?
phenomene [2d?\]: oh, is this reasonable?
BigDoug [24k?\]: oops, sorry, not anymore 8-)
xor [3k\]: this looks fun
minismurf [4d?\]: g9 is ajikeshi again
minismurf [4d?\]: would just help black fix
touyo [15k\]: Of course Matthew is strong in fighting.  But he's a planner, too.  The play at E11 means he's thinking about the lower right corner.
aussiemate [9k\]: fight, fight ^_^
phenomene [2d?\]: white had a good game, isn't he creating several weak groups in his position?
cafard [7d\]: d11 will be fun :)
Muttley [3k\]: not really
fdevolder [15k\]: waht is ajikeshi ?
fdevolder [15k\]: what
cafard [7d\]: when you eat garlic
aussiemate [9k\]: i think K5 was a mistake
cafard [7d\]:  you have ajikeshi
phenomene [2d?\]: aji keshi = erasing potential
museone [7d?\]: d11
Agahim [17k\]: *laugh*
minismurf [4d?\]: the proverb says that you should cut when you can, not peep
Muttley [3k\]: D11 starts the complications
Muttley [3k\]: museone?
Muttley [3k\]: I don't see a simple solution after that
BigDoug [24k?\]: D11 threatens the cut at C11 doesn't it?
aussiemate [9k\]: ?
museone [7d?\]: yes
touyo [15k\]: White is interested in getting the D17 point ...
museone [7d?\]: black is behind
cafard [7d\]: yes, because m16 :)
museone [7d?\]: so fighting is welcome I think
Muttley [3k\]: yes
minismurf [4d?\]: how much behind would you estimate?
cafard [7d\]: 10++
museone [7d?\]: can't estimate exactly
aussiemate [9k\]: 32.5 points ^_^
minismurf [4d?\]: that is why it's called estimate, because it's not exact :)
BigDoug [24k?\]: is it too early for black to play at D17 now?
aussiemate [9k\]: score est. says
museone [7d?\]: but black has no big potential
PHiddink [6k\]: looks like all the big guys at KGS are here
minismurf [4d?\]: just the french gang really
minismurf [4d?\]: ;)
Evercat [?\]: Black's got to deal with this business at D10-ish now Doug I think
phenomene [2d?\]: black is very strong at fighting, white shouldn't start a fight when ahead imho
minismurf [4d?\]: but what after D11?
]
;B[dj]CR[dj]
;W[di]CR[di]
;B[hg]CR[hg]C[BigDoug [24k?\]: my only concern is that his group may need to create life for his F16 group soon
cafard [7d\]: h13 is a thank you move for white :)
phenomene [2d?\]: inside peep
cafard [7d\]: another dame
phenomene [2d?\]: maybe it is needed
Agahim [17k\]: Hey Cafard and Muse, what's your rl rankings?
Muttley [3k\]: no, phenomene
minismurf [4d?\]: in any case white must connect
Muttley [3k\]: coffee is needed
touyo [15k\]: Black is aming at f9
maze [?\]: is that a dog/horse face?
cafard [7d\]: what to think here?
Muttley [3k\]: Nessie
cafard [7d\]: j13 is necessary
Muttley [3k\]: Dog is O16
Muttley [3k\]: Horse is N16
crux [8k\]: is that charles typing as touyo?
Muttley [3k\]: Nessie is M16
phenomene [2d?\]: white is like Cho Chikun, thinkng hard when the move is obvious, then lose because of time :)
touyo [15k\]: yup
museone [7d?\]: j13 is a normal move
crux [8k\]: get a real account and play with us some time :)
touyo [15k\]: again?
PHiddink [6k\]: after j13 b at f10?
touyo [15k\]: no, f9 and squeeze
phenomene [2d?\]: f9 seems better than f10
Muttley [3k\]: H13 does prevent the white stone from escaping North
BigDoug [24k?\]: why do you think that white is taking so long on this move?  smoke break?
aussiemate [9k\]: i'm falling asleep
maze [?\]: why don't they update the clock?
freestone [1d\]: Maybe Tim fell asleep :-)
Muttley [3k\]: because E10 is important
pdcawley [8k\]: aussiemate: You should have been watching the Kisei game in London...
PHiddink [6k\]: this is six hour game
aussiemate [9k\]: must have stopped for a cup of tea
touyo [15k\]: No point losing before lunch
minismurf [4d?\]: but b J13 would ruin the white position
LazyDog [11k\]: lol
phenomene [2d?\]: he msut be thinking about what happens *after* j13
Muttley [3k\]: rather than what happened before?
pdcawley [8k\]: presumably quite a few moves after...
cafard [7d\]: that is b's concern, not white :)
minismurf [4d?\]: he should have been thinking about that before playing E10 :)
phenomene [2d?\]: you mean he may ask for undo, Mutt?
PHiddink [6k\]: w has three floating groups to take care of
xor [3k\]: after f9 white can play c9 in sente and then k6
Muttley [3k\]: lol
Muttley [3k\]: why isn't the time changing?
Hu [9k\]: Demo game.
BigDoug [24k?\]: i'm not sure if it changes during a demonstration game
aussiemate [9k\]: net lag is a bore
Muttley [3k\]: ok
minismurf [4d?\]: i am starting to feel that white won't answer :)
aussiemate [9k\]: if that is what it is
Hu [9k\]: Possibly the pacing of moves made here does not reflect the real-time.
aussiemate [9k\]: W will answer after the second cup of tea
maze [?\]: yes, the observer went for lunch already
aussiemate [9k\]: i think Hu is right
aussiemate [9k\]: as usual
BigDoug [24k?\]: could white play at O14?
minismurf [4d?\]: so, where would you play if you don't answer at J13?
phenomene [2d?\]: j13 only :)
aussiemate [9k\]: i was thinking the same thing myself ^_^
museone [7d?\]: I think black come to separate two white groups j14 and j5, black could win.
cafard [7d\]: j 13 :)
maze [?\]: How about N14  or f7?
aussiemate [9k\]: only move 10 mins ago
Agahim [17k\]: *yawn*
cafard [7d\]: this game should be prohibited to kyu players;  they will have bad habit not answering kikashi
minismurf [4d?\]: well, if you are playing this special variant of go where your opponent can chooes one point you can't play...
museone [7d?\]: nothing els than j13
minismurf [4d?\]: and he chose J13
minismurf [4d?\]: :-)
aussiemate [9k\]: they are up to move 60 by now
MacNala [16k\]: how many moves ahead can you read in 10 minutes
museone [7d?\]: maybe w is smoking
eon [6k?\]: not answering kikashi good habit for kyu players
BigDoug [24k?\]: <slow clap>
cafard [7d\]: eon !
aussiemate [9k\]: ^_^
minismurf [4d?\]: too many go players are smokers :(
aussiemate [9k\]: they are rapidly losing me
eon [6k?\]: cafard!
BigDoug [24k?\]: this is like watching geoff boycott play go
cafard [7d\]: i not only smoke, i also dring, and use drug also
freestone [1d\]: Are you there, Tim?
MacNala [16k\]: then go yourself
aussiemate [9k\]: does he play Go?
PHiddink [6k\]: bad role models for kids like me
Muttley [3k\]: more like watching him play cricket
aussiemate [9k\]: not a lot of people know that
BigDoug [24k?\]: can we check to see that the moderator is still there?
cafard [7d\]: whih moderator ?
BigDoug [24k?\]: whoever is typing in the moves
aussiemate [9k\]: are you there, moderator?
pdcawley [8k\]: if w answers with j13, doesn't b f9 threaten to connect black's two groups?
aussiemate [9k\]: no reply
Agahim [17k\]: BritChamp?
aussiemate [9k\]: yes?
touyo [15k\]: Yes - what if White h12?
Hu [9k\]: Hello BritChamp, are you there BritChamp?  What is going on, BritChamp?
minismurf [4d?\]: yes, H12 is the only other move that comes to mind
touyo [15k\]: It's a six-hour game, folks
Hu [9k\]: BritChamp is sleeping.
minismurf [4d?\]: but it seems so wrong :)
MacNala [16k\]: better than 3 day professional game
aussiemate [9k\]: is a technical problem
]
;W[ge]CR[ge]C[BritChamp [?\]: Sorry
Hu [9k\]: British Telecom?
BigDoug [24k?\]: <passes around hat to help with ISP bill>
BritChamp [?\]: Back now
phenomene [2d?\]: wow
PHiddink [6k\]: hooray
aussiemate [9k\]: aha
Evercat [?\]: is game up to date?
eon [6k?\]: answering kikashi with kikashi :)
minismurf [4d?\]: i warned you :)
minismurf [4d?\]: if black answers he will play H12 i think
BritChamp [?\]: FYI, both players have used 30 min
Muttley [3k\]: if white did not reply, eon .....
maze [?\]: looks like two dogs sneefing one another :)
]
;B[hf]CR[hf]C[aussiemate [9k\]: time is still not moving
phenomene [2d?\]: time doesn't move in demo ganes
aussiemate [9k\]: did for a while
cafard [7d\]: kyu players, close yours eyes pls :)
MacNala [16k\]: no way to do that in a relayed game
minismurf [4d?\]: would be pretty embarrasing to run out of time in a demo game :)
BigDoug [24k?\]: it was like that when the game started
Hu [9k\]: W F15?
cafard [7d\]:  else you'll lose somes ranks when watchning this game
LazyDog [11k\]: :^)
BigDoug [24k?\]: could someone explain the last two moves to a poor student of go please?
LazyDog [11k\]: Shout when I can open them again
minismurf [4d?\]: no bigdoug, they are indefensible
eon [6k?\]: but you gain more ranks once you figure out which kikashi are real kikashi :)
minismurf [4d?\]: but it is mostly a matter of the e10 stone
minismurf [4d?\]: and black playing f9 i think
Hu [9k\]: Yes BigDoug.  They are enormously complicated moves. ^^
child [6k\]: g16 maybe?
PHiddink [6k\]: easy with typing pls
cafard [7d\]: white position at tom collapse in 2moves
cafard [7d\]: at top
]
;W[ig]CR[ig]C[touyo [15k\]: The problem with White threatening to cut at E15 is bad aji if he claims the top left corner.
BigDoug [24k?\]: b H15?
child [6k\]: what about 
PHiddink [6k\]: so many ppl type i am only able to read half of them
Muttley [3k\]: hmmmmmis
BigDoug [24k?\]: just pay attention to the comments with a "d" in the ranking 8-)
LazyDog [11k\]: INcrease the size of you text box
Muttley [3k\]: is G15 bait?
PHiddink [6k\]: thanks 
minismurf [4d?\]: touyo is also a dan Doug, just to make sure :)
PHiddink [6k\]: good advise bigdoug
cafard [7d\]: a pro is hiding among us, let ask him
aussiemate [9k\]: you can read my comments, though
BigDoug [24k?\]: ok aussie, reveal yourself and give us the answer
touyo [15k\]: I'm 3d, this is my son's account
aussiemate [9k\]: it's my secret
minismurf [4d?\]: great articles at Gobase too Charles :)
aussiemate [9k\]: and i'm keeping it that way
phenomene [2d?\]: yes, congrats for your series on ko fights, Charles
aussiemate [9k\]: all i will say is that G15 is a vital point
touyo [15k\]: thanks - even Jasiek liked one (out of 61)
aussiemate [9k\]: make what you like of that
phenomene [2d?\]: :)
minismurf [4d?\]: one article, one diagram? :)
aussiemate [9k\]: one move per diagram
]
;B[hi]CR[hi]C[aussiemate [9k\]: or maybe 2 at a pinch
touyo [15k\]: just the mathematics, I think
minismurf [4d?\]: heh
aussiemate [9k\]: W H15
phenomene [2d?\]: e10 may become useless, especially if white has two others weak groups to handle
cafard [7d\]: they both played strange moves
touyo [15k\]: Yes, why not Black f9, White f15, Black C17 ...
]
;W[he]CR[he]C[aussiemate [9k\]: wrong direction
aussiemate [9k\]: aha
aussiemate [9k\]: what did i say?
child [6k\]: w has some strange shape here
BigDoug [24k?\]: how about bF15, wJ8, bJ10, wG9 ?
freestone [1d\]: W is going to pull E10 out?
PHiddink [6k\]: letting d players talk would benefit all the kyu players 
]
;B[ef]CR[ef]
;W[de]CR[de]C[eon [6k?\]: d players just say we shouldn't watch
phenomene [2d?\]: everybody can comment I think
]
;B[ed]CR[ed]C[Gilles [1k\]: i agree !
LazyDog [11k\]: But please, dan players help us!
eon [6k?\]: b seems better
cafard [7d\]: help what ? :)
LazyDog [11k\]: Copious commetns
phenomene [2d?\]: it's hard to understand what the players are doing :)
pdcawley [8k\]: fighting.
touyo [15k\]: heavy ...
child [6k\]: the push at J11 maybe
cafard [7d\]: i know what they are doing
phenomene [2d?\]: my personal opinion is that with e10 and so on, white made the things difficukt for him
Muttley [3k\]: R13 ?
pdcawley [8k\]: What a surprise, tough complicated fight ina  game involving Matthew Macfadayen...
]
;W[fj]CR[fj]C[cafard [7d\]: they made a deal before a game : play strange move to make observers crazy
museone [7d?\]: amateur dan players r so weak in comparison with pros, so it doesn't help much
Muttley [3k\]: but so what, museone?
child [6k\]: ah now it gets even more complicated
phenomene [2d?\]: now, white has three weak groups
Muttley [3k\]: we all got to start somewhere, so the opinion of a player stronger than you is always interesting
cafard [7d\]: j16 is not a weak group pheno
museone [7d?\]: I understand
phenomene [2d?\]: not yet cafard :)
touyo [15k\]: If Black gets L7 and J10 the game is probably over.
Muttley [3k\]: I won't understand a pro's comments because i don't have that understanding
cafard [7d\]: b h12
Muttley [3k\]: welcome, of course, but all comments gratefully received  :-)
BigDoug [24k?\]: b J10 to separate the groups?
pdcawley [8k\]: BD: and sac h13/h14?
child [6k\]: i understand sometimes a little bit, but not in this game
Muttley [3k\]: cutting stone, child
]
;B[gi]CR[gi]C[Muttley [3k\]: "capture the cutting stone"
BigDoug [24k?\]: is that a gote move?
aussiemate [9k\]: if you cam
LazyDog [11k\]: cafard had the right idea
phenomene [2d?\]: oh, fanfan is here, the French gang is complete now :)
child [6k\]: what is gote ?
Muttley [3k\]: depends whether white replies ....
minismurf [4d?\]: :) muttley
Muttley [3k\]: G9 is black's move?
Muttley [3k\]: yes, mini?
BigDoug [24k?\]: gote is a move which doesn't force the other player to make a response -- in effect, now the other player gains the initiative
minismurf [4d?\]: white must defend his 2 stones if he pulled them out in the first place
Muttley [3k\]: the danger is
minismurf [4d?\]: especially after black defends solidly
Muttley [3k\]: that they no longer affect the status of black;s groups
touyo [15k\]: White g8?
Muttley [3k\]: so pulling them out becomes small
cafard [7d\]: f8
Muttley [3k\]: f8 looks more like honte
BigDoug [24k?\]: how about K7 for white?
child [6k\]: but maybe b still eyeless?
aussiemate [9k\]: E8?
cafard [7d\]: BigDoug, stop proposing moves :)
Muttley [3k\]: I wondered that too, child
cafard [7d\]: you can asks on moves you don't understand :)
Muttley [3k\]: but look at the top
LazyDog [11k\]: Yes, you spoil tha game by giving away the answer
PHiddink [6k\]: bigdoug is okay but other kyu guysneed to go easy
aussiemate [9k\]: sorry
Muttley [3k\]: black must get at least one eye up there
heian [2d\]: kyu dont listen to them =)
BigDoug [24k?\]: my apologies
touyo [15k\]: White f8 aims at d8
child [6k\]: looks like 3 weak groups attacking 1 weak group
aussiemate [9k\]: and mine
cafard [7d\]: w has only 2 weak groups
aussiemate [9k\]: <bows>
cafard [7d\]:  j16 is a STRONG group
phenomene [2d?\]: "only" :)
LazyDog [11k\]: *grins*
phenomene [2d?\]: not so strong
touyo [15k\]: but the relation of f8 to white's three-stone wall isn't so good
cafard [7d\]:  i say it is strong :)
child [6k\]: hm why is J16 strong, looks eyeless to me
cafard [7d\]:  w can ignore 2 moves in this area and i alive
cafard [7d\]: is alive
phenomene [2d?\]: but after the fight with the two other groups, it may be weakened
touyo [15k\]: White g3 may be kikashi ...
cafard [7d\]: it "may" is another problem
child [6k\]: sigh, ok, i `ll take your word for it
]
;W[el]CR[el]C[cafard [7d\]:  now , w has 2 weak groups, and b also
Muttley [3k\]: it may be aji keshi, touyo
]
;B[dl]CR[dl]
;W[em]CR[em]C[cafard [7d\]: now, w has  no weak groups anymore 
domi [1k?\]: touyo :-)
cafard [7d\]: next w K10
domi [1k?\]: what about toyou ?
Evercat [?\]: remember touyo's the hidden 3d :)
]
;B[dm]CR[dm]C[cafard [7d\]: or w g 8
domi [1k?\]: where does this event take place please ?
touyo [15k\]: White j10 now?
Evercat [?\]: Milton Keynes
child [6k\]: or tengen first and then the turn
LazyDog [11k\]: Who's ahead on terriory and influence?
phenomene [2d?\]: see the web page, in Britchamp info, domi
cafard [7d\]: w
domi [1k?\]: pheno y a n f
fanfan [5d\]: K6 now
heian [2d\]: tahts what i was thinking ,but is it slow?
cafard [7d\]: if k6, b would g8
Evercat [?\]: we have guo juan :)
child [6k\]: :-)
]
;W[hk]CR[hk]C[domi [1k?\]: she wants to study their style for the next tournament :-) 
touyo [15k\]: why?
child [6k\]: which is better J11 or J10?
eon [6k?\]: I'm sure she knows MM's style very well already :)
fanfan [5d\]: J9 :-)
touyo [15k\]: yes, in a seminar she used it a s a 'straw man' for two days ...
Evercat [?\]: hehe
domi [1k?\]: you must be right eon - there are not many english people watching at the game here
cafard [7d\]: only french people here :)
cafard [7d\]:  no german, no british :)
vlindertje [6k\]: hey a belgian too
phenomene [2d?\]: but at least one dutch :)
child [6k\]: bist du sicher?
Cirrion [16k\]: objection, your honour
Muttley [3k\]: et aussi .....
cafard [7d\]: child, you don't go for voting today ?
Muttley [3k\]: Le Chien do Go
child [6k\]: nope, still too young :-(
domi [1k?\]: :-)Mut ! how are you today ?
vlindertje [6k\]: oh t-yeah the german are voting
cafard [7d\]: k10
LazyDog [11k\]: I am British, and this is a lovely way to spend my lazy Sunday morning - thanks guys
fanfan [5d\]: kosumi is not a move
cafard [7d\]: k10 is not a kosumi
pdcawley [8k\]: LazyDog: Not marching in London then?
Cirrion [16k\]: yes, a nice sunday dinner and a game to watch while munching ....
LazyDog [11k\]: No, why?
LazyDog [11k\]: Should I watch the news?
kiwiPete [19k\]: forgive my ignorance, but does anyone have an advantage yet?
Muttley [3k\]: anti-Iraqwar demo?
pdcawley [8k\]: Nah. It's just a bunch of foxhunters.
cafard [7d\]: w
fanfan [5d\]: don't escape with a keima
child [6k\]: looks to me b has to get out somehow
domi [1k?\]: K10 is not possible, is it ? immediate cut no ?
eon [6k?\]: b needs to escape?
nakade [4d\]: I'm British, but I'm having dinner now in Japan
heian [2d\]: j11?
Chopin [15k?\]: I'm also a cheesehead
Chopin [15k?\]: And Bastaman also
PHiddink [6k\]: who said j9 is a cool play?
fanfan [5d\]: me
cafard [7d\]: bon, je vais voir les infos, a plus
PHiddink [6k\]: ok
Cirrion [16k\]: don't mention Japan... autumn must be coming now, *sigh*
phenomene [2d?\]: fanfan, explain j9 please
phenomene [2d?\]: this is not in my repertoire
fanfan [5d\]: i don't like J11 and J10
]
;B[ij]CR[ij]C[nakade [4d\]: yes the heat is over, thank goodness
domi [1k?\]: lol
phenomene [2d?\]: oh, this is not a move :)
child [6k\]: kosumi!
Cirrion [16k\]: where in Japan are you, Nakade?
nakade [4d\]: Tokyo
fanfan [5d\]: :-)
Cirrion [16k\]: ah... I was two years in Osaka .... August bloody awful each time :)
maze [?\]: Quem fala portuguese
child [6k\]: magari?
domi [1k?\]: remember even professional play bad moves pheno ;-))
LazyDog [11k\]: What is kosumi? Sorry.
phenomene [2d?\]: kosumi = diagonal move
fanfan [5d\]: a diagonal move
maze [?\]: diagonal connection
nakade [4d\]: yes, stay indoors and work hard in the airconditioning
LazyDog [11k\]: I don't understand wwhat you are syaing about j10\]
LazyDog [11k\]: Why is it *so* bad?
Cirrion [16k\]: air conditioning? :) the lab didnt have any
]
;W[jl]CR[jl]C[phenomene [2d?\]: fanfan meant it was not  good shape I guess
fanfan [5d\]: J10 is a kosumi (a diagonal move), and i don't like this shape
LazyDog [11k\]: Thanks
child [6k\]: kind of double keima
touyo [15k\]: j10 is a bit shapeless - W has the points j12 and h9
Chopin [15k?\]: L10 for black!
LazyDog [11k\]: Thanks
Chopin [15k?\]: makes the group of j16 weak!
planar [5k\]: fanfan, you don't like keima and you don't like kosumi, is there any shape you like ?
phenomene [2d?\]: yes, j12 and h9 are alreday on the vital points of kosumi
fanfan [5d\]: nobi! :-)
fanfan [5d\]: nobi is the only move :-)
phenomene [2d?\]: fanfan likes sake bottle shape :-)
child [6k\]: the cut with J9 does not work?
fanfan [5d\]: but J11 was a nobi that i don't like
freestone [1d\]: If it comes to it, can Black live at the top?
]
;B[je]CR[je]C[fanfan [5d\]: the J9 cut doesn't cut
domi [1k?\]: fanfan, the fact you don't like is very interesting but why you don't like would be more interesting
phenomene [2d?\]: so, this is a strong group, cafard? :-)
kiwiPete [19k\]: who is black, and who is white?
fanfan [5d\]: i am looking for a reason :-)
kiwiPete [19k\]: oh, I see its MacFadyn black.  I think he will win :-)
domi [1k?\]: yes the J14 group is strong....for the moment
child [6k\]: J16 group somehow does not look that strong anymore, but hey what do i know
heian [2d\]: it isnt weak
PHiddink [6k\]: hey bigdoug dont be too quiet  your sage questions help all of us
phenomene [2d?\]: k16 before connecting?
fanfan [5d\]: w J15 is heavy
kiwiPete [19k\]: black seems better coordinated to me, but what do i know
fanfan [5d\]: w should be very relunctant to play J15
]
;W[jd]CR[jd]C[domi [1k?\]: heavy ? but what else ?
fanfan [5d\]: K16? :-)
phenomene [2d?\]: my move :)
domi [1k?\]: ;-))
child [6k\]: hm, b can`t cut yet
heian [2d\]: eventualyl he will have to play j15 tho
kiwiPete [19k\]: L15 now ?
child [6k\]: L15 now?
domi [1k?\]: who is the person typing the moves please ?
]
;B[ke]CR[ke]
;W[ie]CR[ie]
;B[kj]CR[kj]
;W[lg]CR[lg]C[Evercat [?\]: It's Tim Hunt
LazyDog [11k\]: I have to go and find some food - bother. Thanks for all your comments and patience (especially phiddink). I will be back.
touyo [15k\]: Now Black just runs into White's framework
domi [1k?\]: Tim can you describe the atmosphere please ,
child [6k\]: should b run once more with N10?
PHiddink [6k\]: thank you lazydog
Muttley [3k\]: they are both drinking beer, domi
fanfan [5d\]: b N10 cannot be bad
fanfan [5d\]: tobi is never a bad move
phenomene [2d?\]: oh, we have found the shape fanfan likes :)
phenomene [2d?\]: tobi
heian [2d\]: nobi..tobi..there's a pattern there..
child [6k\]: thanks, at least i got it right once :-)
PHiddink [6k\]: hmm... nice comment tks
maze [?\]: tobi or not tobi is the question ?
utafahudh [1d\]: Who are playing?
]
;B[li]CR[li]C[eon [6k?\]: we need titles for demo games
PHiddink [6k\]: lol maze
touyo [15k\]: ha - the ear point
child [6k\]: hm wrong again
minismurf [4d?\]: i guess we just found the shape mm likes :)
child [6k\]: this attacks white?
rcc [9k\]: m11 needed to prevent cut at k10?
touyo [15k\]: if Black just jumped, White's peep at 11 affects the chance of cutting
utafahudh [1d\]: yes (about title). I tried to find some info about the players, but couldn't find any.
]
;W[lh]CR[lh]C[eon [6k?\]: b is Matthey McFadyen, w is Matthew Cocke
child [6k\]: try homepage
BigDoug [24k?\]: if black can play at O12, is white's group at J16 in danger of not having eyes?
vivo [?\]: M8?
BritChamp [?\]: For more background into, get player info on BritChamp, and look at the URL
heian [2d\]: m8 looks good
]
;B[ll]CR[ll]C[vivo [?\]: ._)
fanfan [5d\]: the game looks good for b
eon [5k?\]: splitting attack
child [6k\]: wonder if w can leave the w group on the left
PHiddink [6k\]: w cant help that until it takes care of two weak groups i think
vivo [?\]: g3?
domi [1k?\]: what colour do you prefer ?
fanfan [5d\]: b
cafard [7d\]: back
Chopin [15k?\]: purple
child [6k\]: blanc?
fanfan [5d\]: blue
child [6k\]: beige?
Marcel [5d\]: rose
fanfan [5d\]: magenta
child [6k\]: brown?
fanfan [5d\]: caramel
phenomene [2d?\]: we really need Mrs Guo for comments :
phenomene [2d?\]: :)
]
;W[kn]CR[kn]C[PHiddink [6k\]: is Guo a she?
phenomene [2d?\]: yes
kiwiPete [19k\]: isn't white's entire group around H9 in danger?
domi [1k?\]: glups ? was not waiting for that move...
heian [2d\]: o11?
fanfan [5d\]: since we don't know how to play go, difficult to find an appropriate comment
minismurf [4d?\]: speak for yourself ;)
PHiddink [6k\]: oh pls
domi [1k?\]: what if B pushes into the shape
touyo [15k\]: White needed to take territory
fanfan [5d\]: yes :-)
child [6k\]: this b group seems to have grown too large to be attacked
freestone [1d\]: Can you explain -- territory where?
eon [5k?\]: w cannot attack
utafahudh [1d\]: I think b is better now. w has two weak groups, with b's now not-so-weak group inbetween
kiwiPete [19k\]: is K6 an option here?
touyo [15k\]: Upper right
minismurf [4d?\]: black will just take a big point?
BritChamp [?\]: Time used: MM(b) 60min, MC(w) 55min
minismurf [4d?\]: lunch break in just a few mins britchamp?
fanfan [5d\]: there is something at O16
Marcel [5d\]: MM/MC who are they?
utafahudh [1d\]: And w's right side is still very thin
PHiddink [6k\]: hey champ could you tell us about Mattew Cocke's style of playing?
child [6k\]: info at britchamp
Marcel [5d\]: thx
touyo [15k\]: Cocke is strong in the endgame
domi [1k?\]: stop always this "see the infos" style, we are human beings we can talk
maze [?\]: B is Matthey McFadyen 6d, W is Matthew Cocke 5d
minismurf [4d?\]: well, repeating 10 times who are playing is not very productive is it :)
child [6k\]: :-)
heian [2d\]: o11 looks too good to me.is it slow?
PHiddink [6k\]: agree minismurf
domi [1k?\]: question of communication smurf
LazyDog [11k\]: Tensions run high around the stadium
domi [1k?\]: maybe next time it will be better to create a different nick
PHiddink [6k\]: lol LazyDog
child [6k\]: the suspense is killing me
minismurf [4d?\]: nicks can only be 10 characters
minismurf [4d?\]: so hard to encode who is playing in nickname :)
domi [1k?\]: nicks are what wms wants they are no ?
vivo [?\]: isn't o11 driving black directly into the thin white group?
LazyDog [11k\]: Go = game of life, life is fun. Lets have fun today and leave the serious style in the joseki books
child [6k\]: and the audience is still growing
touyo [15k\]: Black has p4 etc to play as kikashi here
minismurf [4d?\]: yes, people skipped the boring fuseki and are turning up just in time for the interesting endgame :)
child [6k\]: maybe the shoulderhit looks interesting
domi [1k?\]: ;-)
GoVictim [20k\]: What is the dan rating of the players?
domi [1k?\]: what about Q3 ?
phenomene [2d?\]: 6d an d5d
child [6k\]: somewhere on the olympus
heian [2d\]: w is 5d,b is 6d
GoVictim [20k\]: Thanks
kiwiPete [19k\]: can someone explain why k6 with idea of L7 is a bad move?
Muttley [3k\]: libetires
kiwiPete [19k\]: or is that too stupid for explanation :-)
friede [1d\]: is not bad
Muttley [3k\]: liberties
utafahudh [1d\]: Why can't I browse through the game from the beginning with the editing tool?
BritChamp [?\]: Next move will be the sealed move for lunch.
heian [2d\]: because its a demo
phenomene [2d?\]: because it is a demo game
Muttley [3k\]: is the downsideblack plays moves that ta
GoVictim [20k\]: click view offline then you can
BigDoug [24k?\]: go to options, then view offline
Muttley [3k\]: ke away libertise of own group
LazyDog [11k\]: How long is lunch break?
utafahudh [1d\]: ah... thx
minismurf [4d?\]: so we don't get to see anymore moves before lunch then?
PHiddink [6k\]: man this is a full time work
domi [1k?\]: oh they have make a break now ?
Chopin [15k?\]: early lunch...
minismurf [4d?\]: are you cooking the lunch too Tim? :)
phenomene [2d?\]: haha
LazyDog [11k\]: Can I get hot dogs anywhere around here?
PHiddink [6k\]: no food allow in the room
domi [1k?\]: hot lazydogs ?
LazyDog [11k\]: :^)
deft [4d\]: Put a torch to Mutt and you'll have a hot dog
LazyDog [11k\]: Be nice to the dogs!
eon [5k?\]: I don't think you need a torch for that...
PHiddink [6k\]: uh uhhu
eon [5k?\]: a picture of Lassie should be enough ;-)
LazyDog [11k\]: lol
Muttley [3k\]: lol
Muttley [3k\]: mmm Lassie BAYBAY!
LazyDog [11k\]: *howl* *howl*
Muttley [3k\]: Finest collie this side of West Virginia
Muttley [3k\]: but a shame to record this in the game commentary  ;-)
PHiddink [6k\]: The LR corner for w seems vulnerable for attack
Bottleofig [?\]: whatkind of fucking bearded pansy has the name touyo
GoVictim [20k\]: .
PHiddink [6k\]: seventy observers here
kiwiPete [19k\]: is there any agreement on the best move here?
PHiddink [6k\]: the number will grow when game resumes 
PHiddink [6k\]: some mentioned b at 0 11 is a honte
BritChamp [?\]: The game will restart in approximately 1 hour. 
PHiddink [6k\]: wow one hour
freestone [1d\]: Guo's commentary before that?
BritChamp [?\]: Comments from Guo Juan will start at 13:00 UK time (it is now 12:40).
heian [2d\]: no,i liked o11 and was wondering if it was slow
aussiemate [9k\]: well, i'm off to bed
aussiemate [9k\]: s'night all
BritChamp [?\]: Guo may use a different copy of the game.
BigDoug [24k?\]: cheers aussie
aussiemate [9k\]: *g'night
PHiddink [6k\]: by aussi
aussiemate [9k\]: ^_^
PHiddink [6k\]: if not 011 then where would you play heian?
heian [2d\]: i like o11 =)
heian [2d\]: thats where i would play
PHiddink [6k\]: ok
heian [2d\]: but
heian [2d\]: i dont know if its slow or not
PHiddink [6k\]: it forces w to play there near right?
minismurf [4d?\]: do you think either of the players will be analyzing the game over lunch?
heian [2d\]: most likely i think they will be trying to relax
freestone [1d\]: Last time I saw these two play, they just had lunch together
heian [2d\]: but its impossible to not think about it =)
pdcawley [8k\]: heh.
PHiddink [6k\]: i am going to bed
PHiddink [6k\]: bye guys enjoy the game
PHiddink [6k\]: cu later BigDoug
kiwiPete [19k\]: does K6 more or less force L7?  Then you could try something like K7, L8, J8 !?
BigDoug [24k?\]: cheers P
minismurf [4d?\]: it seems like a little bad style
heian [2d\]: but what is your end goal from it?
minismurf [4d?\]: it is quite severe though
heian [2d\]: hte j4 stones arent really worth much
heian [2d\]: if thats all you get from it
child [6k\]: the right side looks like the playing area
heian [2d\]: i tihnk so too
heian [2d\]: i think black should try to split r10 from the m12 group
child [6k\]: what about the shoulder hit at q11
heian [2d\]: not sure,i keep looking at that one too,but i think im too weak to find a good sequence for both players
child [6k\]: or take some territory with r12
child [6k\]: or maybe an invasion somewhere on the lower right
heian [2d\]: i think lower right invasion is too soon
heian [2d\]: theres no definite outcome and it could hurt blacks chances against the top and r10
child [6k\]: is there some kind of attack possible against m12?
child [6k\]: what about o13 then
heian [2d\]: i dont think white will die,but of black were to get o11 and h17 i think he'll be getting  very uncomfortableuncomfortable.
heian [2d\]: umm,yeah
minismurf [4d?\]: guotime? :)
heian [2d\]: *cant wait*
heian [2d\]: a voice of reason will soon be upon us =)
child [6k\]: like a sermon?
heian [2d\]: to someone like me it is =)
child [6k\]: hm, i hope i grasp the explanations
heian [2d\]: should be able to.
child [6k\]: this game seems quite difficult,
child [6k\]: maybe i `ll learn something........
heian [2d\]: bad shape does that
heian [2d\]: what would play here,mini?
heian [2d\]: you*
minismurf [4d?\]: i am totally confused :)
heian [2d\]: hehe
minismurf [4d?\]: but i think i would play on the right
child [6k\]: according to the score est. w i leading, i just don`t trust that score est very much though
LazyDog [11k\]: lol
minismurf [4d?\]: i just can't decide if invading lower right is reasonable
child [6k\]: which point on the right then?
heian [2d\]: i think lower right is just too soon
heian [2d\]: q13 area keeps screaming at me
child [6k\]: is there some kind of profitable attack against m13?
minismurf [4d?\]: r12 seems possible
minismurf [4d?\]: i just feel like playing a big point for black :)
child [6k\]: just taking territory?
child [6k\]: is there no multipurpose move?
heian [2d\]: o11 seems multipurpose to me
heian [2d\]: it takes all pressure off of blacks center group,attacks r10,m12
LazyDog [11k\]: Isn't r12 putting pressure on r10 stone and m13 group?
LazyDog [11k\]: and taking territory
child [6k\]: good point LD
minismurf [4d?\]: the reason i like r12 is that it induces P10 and then P12
LazyDog [11k\]: yep
heian [2d\]: but does it induce p10?
heian [2d\]: cant white play p12?
child [6k\]: but then w right gets awfully big
minismurf [4d?\]: p12 looks like strange shape to me
minismurf [4d?\]: but sure, if you want to do that...
LazyDog [11k\]: kosumi?
minismurf [4d?\]: kosumi how?
child [6k\]: maybe w can easyly live on top with m17
LazyDog [11k\]: split r10 and q12 from r11
vlindertje [6k\]: yeah living is ok, but isn't connecting better
heian [2d\]: getting p12 for black seems too easy for white to allow 
minismurf [4d?\]: yes, but then white still doesn't have continuity between his stones
child [6k\]: what about another shoulder hit at q9 then
minismurf [4d?\]: difficult
heian [2d\]: if r12 i think white will q12
minismurf [4d?\]: where is guo when we need her
minismurf [4d?\]: r12 q12 gives black lots of options
heian [2d\]: still big for black tho
child [6k\]: maybe some yosumiru first ( if that`s the right word)
Sophist [11k\]: define please
minismurf [4d?\]: O11 seems like an interesting idea too, but if white then lives easily... how to follow up?
child [6k\]: how about r3 or s4  first
micawber [?\]: who's white?
freestone [1d\]: SophistL see http://senseis.xmp.net/?YosuMiru
minismurf [4d?\]: i was looking at those moves too, but it seems like wrong direction now
LazyDog [11k\]: Can black push with k6?
minismurf [4d?\]: K6 is possible
minismurf [4d?\]: but it will strengthen white toward the right
touyo [15k\]: later
LazyDog [11k\]: OK
minismurf [4d?\]: touyo, what are your ideas for next move?
minismurf [4d?\]: or someone in the french gang :)
touyo [15k\]: Black's only problem seems to be White q7, making territory with some attacking force
child [6k\]: q7 is huge
*** COMMENTS CUT OFF; TOO MANY COMMENTS ***
]
;B[pi]CR[pi]C[Honte [13k\]: Whieeeeee
Honte [13k\]: Back on track
Honte [13k\]: after a nice RAMEN lunch
]
;W[nh]CR[nh]C[minismurf [4d?\]: guojuan is commenting the start of the game in my demo game
minismurf [4d?\]: if anyone else is interseted
micawber [?\]: players?
]
;B[mi]CR[mi]
;W[pg]CR[pg]C[bubbling [25k?\]: assume "5p" rating is "5-Dan Professional"
Tictactoe [-\]: yes guo juan is pro she comments on the brittish championship game
LazyDog [11k\]: Yep
bubbling [25k?\]: is cool
minismurf [4d?\]: hello tictactoe :)
Tictactoe [-\]: Mcfayden against ??
minismurf [4d?\]: she is commenting the start of the game in the minismurf demo game
minismurf [4d?\]: Cocke
Tictactoe [-\]: yes i have sen
micawber [?\]: colours?
Tictactoe [-\]: McFayden white in my opinion
LazyDog [11k\]: Matthew Cocke is white 5d, Matthe MacFayden is black 6d
minismurf [4d?\]: hehe tictac :)
minismurf [4d?\]: close ;)
Tictactoe [-\]: so i was wrong:)
LazyDog [11k\]: It happens to the best of us sometimes!
minismurf [4d?\]: opinions are never wrong
Tictactoe [-\]: i haven't seen games of matthew anymore since 1990
Tictactoe [-\]: so he is getting rusty???
minismurf [4d?\]: he won the first game 11.5
Tictactoe [-\]: allowing both this shimari by Cocke is rather peculiar
PHiddink [6k\]: they need you minismurf
PHiddink [6k\]: guojuan can edit anymore 
PHiddink [6k\]: cant
worryezkil [29k\]: he is back and given control
Muttley [3k\]: Q10 followed by O14?
Muttley [3k\]: black still has aji on the right, doesn't he?
Tictactoe [-\]: is the time alotment 3 hours each for the brittish championship?
Muttley [3k\]: yes
Tictactoe [-\]: nice
]
;B[qi]CR[qi]C[Tictactoe [-\]: but it takes ages to wait for the next move
semelis [4d\]: :)
Tictactoe [-\]: the internet-go has wasted me to play far quicker :)
semelis [4d\]: but between moves we can get commentary
Tictactoe [-\]: i went to the bathroom in between :)
freestone [1d\]: Some commentary in minismurf game, ttt
Muttley [3k\]: any opinions whether white is still ahead?
touyo [15k\]: not if the group is dead :)
Tictactoe [-\]: white will end gote to survive in the top-centre it seems
Tictactoe [-\]: i bet black has the upperhand here
micawber [?\]: w has difficult game 
child [6k\]: Guo is commenting at minismurf`s game
rika [8k\]: is komi really 6.5?
Evercat [?\]: yes
freestone [1d\]: New this year
micawber [?\]: y not possible to play thru moves already played?
]
;W[od]CR[od]C[abex [1d\]: who is b and who is w?
minismurf [4d?\]: never possible in demo game
semelis [4d\]: you can edit privately though
micawber [?\]: that is a drawback here
abex [1d\]: does anyone know which colour is Macfaddyen please?
micawber [?\]: how do u edit privately?
minismurf [4d?\]: options view offline
minismurf [4d?\]: only possible with download client
Bisqwit [?\]: It's a feature. When you're being taught, you are supposed to concentrate, not play your own...
Tictactoe [-\]: matthew is black Aisson
fraggy2 [12k?\]: MM is b
micawber [?\]: ta minismurf
]
;B[pd]CR[pd]C[abex [1d\]: thanks Tictactoe.  w is also called matthw - matthew cocke
Tictactoe [-\]: is the championship best out of three or best out of five?
freestone [1d\]: 5
]
;W[nc]CR[nc]C[domi [1k?\]: fanfan was telling moves he likes and ones he dislikes...here W likes keima very much
semelis [4d\]: G8 now ?
minismurf [4d?\]: -> domi: guo is commenting in my demo game
]
;B[mc]CR[mc]C[domi [1k?\]: oh really thanks
semelis [4d\]: sorry, wrong windodw?
LazyDog [11k\]: This looks bad for black, am I missing something?
rcc [9k\]: Could black have answered p16 at p15, let white take the corner but capture the w stones in the middle??
Muttley [3k\]: where are white's eyes, Lazydog?
minismurf [4d?\]: where are eyes for 4 black stones ? :)
Muttley [3k\]: they are connected to Q17
]
;W[mb]CR[mb]C[LazyDog [11k\]: Thanks minismurf!
LazyDog [11k\]: I wasn't sure if they were connected
minismurf [4d?\]: it is not clear that they are
]
;B[lb]CR[lb]
;W[md]CR[md]
;B[lc]CR[lc]C[micawber [?\]: no that's the point of this fight
trubamolli [5k\]: it's funny how situations like these look like something _has_ to die but dan players tend to solve it in a boring manner and they're both happy :)
Muttley [3k\]: white can't cover K18, O18 and N15 in one go?
semelis [4d\]: not so boring if both happy :)
Muttley [3k\]: or am I missing the point
Muttley [3k\]: I thought black lived or connected because the white stones were weaker
trubamolli [5k\]: semelis, it's boring to watch... the thrill to see who makes the kill and who must resign, it's all gone :/
rcc [9k\]: Only boring if you can't read out the things that could have happened
semelis [4d\]: right rcc
]
;W[nb]CR[nb]C[fraggy2 [12k?\]: doesnt look boring to me
]
;B[me]CR[me]C[domi [1k?\]: ??? what does W here ?
semelis [4d\]: ko, I think
Muttley [3k\]: I thought white had to play N15
domi [1k?\]: me too Mut
Muttley [3k\]: but the group at H9 ....
Muttley [3k\]: ko threat, ko threat, ko threat ....
minismurf [4d?\]: -> delayed live commentary in minismurf demo game
Acro [10k\]: (from Guo Juan [5p\])
minismurf [4d?\]: yes, thanks acro :)
domi [1k?\]: hey Acro hello !
domi [1k?\]: you diseappeared ?
cafard [7d\]: o18 is kind of overplay
]
;W[nf]CR[nf]C[Muttley [3k\]: certainly looks it
]
;B[nd]CR[nd]
;W[oj]CR[oj]C[domi [1k?\]: what is W's plan, continue the attack on H11 group ?
Muttley [3k\]: if white makes 40 points bottom right .....
micawber [?\]: can't see him doing that
domi [1k?\]: I just can't understand
micawber [?\]: got defend his group in top centre
cafard [7d\]: w played o14
cafard [7d\]: ops :)
]
;B[pj]CR[pj]
;W[ok]CR[ok]
;B[nl]CR[nl]C[micawber [?\]: w in trouble
]
;W[rg]CR[rg]
;B[ql]CR[ql]
;W[ni]CR[ni]
;B[ln]CR[ln]
;W[ko]CR[ko]C[touyo [15k\]: White needs something like P17 to work because of aji in the corner ...
]
;B[og]CR[og]C[phenomene [2d?\]: p13 looks as a decisive blow
micawber [?\]: y looks strong
]
;W[ne]CR[ne]
;B[md]CR[md]C[Muttley [3k\]: white can connect at P15
Muttley [3k\]: but then P12 is gote
]
;W[oh]CR[oh]
;B[qg]CR[qg]C[deft [4d\]: is this game live, or is it a replay?
minismurf [4d?\]: live
Muttley [3k\]: this window is the game
eon [5k?\]: minismurf demo is replay
minismurf [4d?\]: guojuan 5p is commenting in my demo game
Muttley [3k\]: guo is commentating in mini's
]
;W[qf]CR[qf]
;B[pf]CR[pf]
;W[qh]CR[qh]
;B[ph]CR[ph]
;W[of]CR[of]
;B[qg]CR[qg]
;W[pk]CR[pk]C[Honte [13k\]: can black connect at q13
Honte [13k\]: or eat s12
jerokfor [2d?\]: sorry but i dont see who r b and w in britchamp info
minismurf [4d?\]: b macfayden
jerokfor [2d?\]: who can help me please?
minismurf [4d?\]: w cocke
minismurf [4d?\]: matthews both of them
freestone [1d\]: If B connects he threatens N12?
cafard [7d\]: b MM
jerokfor [2d?\]: ok i know him
jerokfor [2d?\]: he is a nice guy
]
;B[pg]CR[pg]
;W[qk]CR[qk]
;B[mh]CR[mh]C[Muttley [3k\]: not in this game   :-)
jerokfor [2d?\]: hehe
Muttley [3k\]: I think white might resign here
jerokfor [2d?\]: i saw him sometimes in tournaments
Muttley [3k\]: yes, nice chap
jerokfor [2d?\]: he looks like :)
cafard [7d\]: q9 is a bad kothreat
minismurf [4d?\]: it looks resignable
]
;W[ng]CR[ng]
;B[mg]CR[mg]C[phenomene [2d?\]: proverb : never resign before move 100 :)
jerokfor [2d?\]: what is the result of the first game?
minismurf [4d?\]: :)
Muttley [3k\]: MM won by 11.5
Muttley [3k\]: apparently
phenomene [2d?\]: MacFadyen won by 12,5
minismurf [4d?\]: that was the first game
touyo [15k\]: look at britgo.org
Muttley [3k\]: sadly, not played
micawber [?\]: w lost
]
;W[mf]CR[mf]
;B[lf]CR[lf]C[Honte [13k\]: will white resign?
deft [4d\]: probably
]
;W[kf]CR[kf]
;B[le]CR[le]C[minismurf [4d?\]: -> comments by guojuan 5p in minismurf demo game
]
;W[ji]CR[ji]
;B[jj]CR[jj]
;W[jb]CR[jb]C[Honte [13k\]: is white taking up the fight?
Muttley [3k\]: white is struggling to live
Muttley [3k\]: and is behind even if does so
]
;B[jf]CR[jf]
;W[kh]CR[kh]
;B[oe]CR[oe]
;W[gc]CR[gc]
;B[fb]CR[fb]
;W[fc]CR[fc]
;B[eb]CR[eb]C[deft [4d\]: B could also play Q7 to kill the other group...
]
;W[ec]CR[ec]
;B[dc]CR[dc]
;W[dd]CR[dd]
;B[cc]CR[cc]
;W[ii]CR[ii]
;B[hj]CR[hj]C[minismurf [4d?\]: -> comments by guojuan in minismurf demo game
]
;W[jg]CR[jg]
;B[hc]CR[hc]
;W[gb]CR[gb]
;B[hb]CR[hb]
;W[gd]CR[gd]
;B[ga]CR[ga]
;W[ia]CR[ia]
;B[bd]CR[bd]
;W[be]CR[be]
;B[ha]CR[ha]
;W[fa]CR[fa]
;B[cb]CR[cb]
;W[ic]CR[ic]
;B[jn]CR[jn]
;W[km]CR[km]C[Muttley [3k\]: is this an error?
Muttley [3k\]: oh no, sorry is game
]
;B[nn]CR[nn]
;W[qm]CR[qm]
;B[qn]CR[qn]
;W[pm]CR[pm]
;B[np]CR[np]
;W[mj]CR[mj]
;B[lj]CR[lj]
;W[mp]CR[mp]
;B[op]CR[op]
;W[mo]CR[mo]
;B[on]CR[on]
;W[pn]CR[pn]
;B[oq]CR[oq]C[flatline [14k\]: hey muttley :)
]
;W[mq]CR[mq]
;B[mk]CR[mk]
;W[eo]CR[eo]
;B[bc]CR[bc]C[Muttley [3k\]: hi
]
;W[eq]CR[eq]C[Muttley [3k\]: you have a week to make 10k
]
;B[dr]CR[dr]C[eon [5k?\]: no prob
]
;W[iq]CR[iq]
;B[ir]CR[ir]
;W[kr]CR[kr]C[Muttley [3k\]: I'll meet you on the way down ....
]
;B[jr]CR[jr]
;W[fr]CR[fr]C[cafard [7d\]: what happen if b L17 ?
jerokfor [2d?\]: i was wondering too
jerokfor [2d?\]: but some tell me it looks ok for w
eon [5k?\]: then ask in the other game
]
;B[jm]CR[jm]
;W[kl]CR[kl]
;B[im]CR[im]C[jerokfor [2d?\]: because of c19
]
;W[ik]CR[ik]C[Muttley [3k\]: L19 if L17, surely?
jerokfor [2d?\]: l19 does not make life it seems
Muttley [3k\]: itwhy not?
cafard [7d\]: no, l19 then L18
minismurf [4d?\]: J19 + L17 makes life
Muttley [3k\]: then M19
minismurf [4d?\]: if white starts
cafard [7d\]: if w starts :)
jerokfor [2d?\]: we know
minismurf [4d?\]: :))
cafard [7d\]:  if b starts it's dead
jerokfor [2d?\]: we were asking if b does l17
jerokfor [2d?\]: ;)
Muttley [3k\]: white connects underneath & takes the black stones
minismurf [4d?\]: didn't you see what guo showed?
Muttley [3k\]: ?
freestone [1d\]: b has p17 id w connects under
Muttley [3k\]: if L17, L19, L18, then M19
freestone [1d\]: p17
Muttley [3k\]: durrrr
Muttley [3k\]: lol
Muttley [3k\]: oh yeah, sorry
LazyDog [11k\]: w should resign so that I can get on with my day!
]
;B[lr]CR[lr]
;W[mn]CR[mn]
;B[lm]CR[lm]
;W[kp]CR[kp]
;B[kq]CR[kq]
;W[go]CR[go]C[cafard [7d\]: at the beginning at the game i said that kyu players should not watch the game :)
cafard [7d\]:  now it's dans players turns 
]
;B[gm]CR[gm]C[cafard [7d\]: it gives bad habit to decide when to resign
]
;W[gl]CR[gl]C[LazyDog [11k\]: lol
Warp [23k?\]: Is white simply being stubborn, or does he see something the rest of the world doesn't?
]
;B[dn]CR[dn]C[int0x21 [12k\]: maybe he is saving the bomb tesuji for last
minismurf [4d?\]: what a terrible game for white psychologically
minismurf [4d?\]: ever since that cut at E10 he had to struggle 
]
;W[en]CR[en]
;B[kc]CR[kc]
;W[ib]CR[ib]
;B[ea]CR[ea]C[int0x21 [12k\]: i remeber somone saying something like that when white played e10
int0x21 [12k\]: mc f is strong in fighting he shouldnt do that when he is ahead
phenomene [2d?\]: it was me :)
int0x21 [12k\]: and so true
int0x21 [12k\]: :)
pdcawley [8k\]: Mc f seems to be very good at taking compensation as well...
minismurf [4d?\]: yes, but like guo showed it seems he misread some variations in the upper left
pdcawley [8k\]: Don't doubt it.
LazyDog [11k\]: So what do we think of the state of British Go?
deft [4d\]: L19 only move
int0x21 [12k\]: better then mine
Honte [13k\]: is white just trying to tire black out and psyche him
fiddle [2k\]: did w resign?
minismurf [4d?\]: we maintain the analysis that mcfayden is pretty strong
]
;W[ks]CR[ks]
;B[gr]CR[gr]
;W[gs]CR[gs]
;B[hs]CR[hs]C[deft [4d\]: hopeless
]
;W[cp]CR[cp]C[cafard [7d\]: this w is funny :)
]
;B[dp]CR[dp]
;W[do]CR[do]C[BritChamp [?\]: White resignes
Honte [13k\]: at last
minismurf [4d?\]: white resigns during blacks turn?
]
;B[bo]CR[bo]C[minismurf [4d?\]: i was taught this is impolite?
fiddle [2k\]: nope :)
BritChamp [?\]: Sorry, missed the last black move
minismurf [4d?\]: :-)
Evercat [?\]: white never tried to live with L19?
phenomene [2d?\]: ok ,thnak to the players, and thank you for broadcasting the game
Honte [13k\]: Big Thanks to KGS
Gareth [11k\]: Thanks to everyone.
child [6k\]: thanks to all
Honte [13k\]: And players
fiddle [2k\]: who is "BritChamp" please?
minismurf [4d?\]: thanks for broadcasting yes :)
Honte [13k\]: And respect to BritChamp!
])
