(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]TM[6300]
PW[White Alex Selby]PB[Black Bei Ge]WR[4d]BR[6d]DT[2007-07-21]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]C[macfadyen [-\]: This is a cloned copy of the British Championship Game2
macfadyen [-\]: Players are Bei Ge 5d (Black) Alex selby 4d (W)
simpkin [6k\]: morning, matthew - curious time limits geoff's set!
macfadyen [-\]: the time limits will do for an hour or 2
simpkin [6k\]: oh, yes - it's a strange feature of these demo games to have time limits at all, really
macfadyen [-\]: Some of us need to sleep
Javaness [1d\]: you can use a demo to play a game there days
]
;B[pd]
;W[dp]C[Javaness [1d\]: and the clocks get used in that mode
macfadyen [-\]: OK here we go
]
;B[pp]C[macfadyen [-\]: Bei is not setting himself an easy pace by doing 5 minutes breathing exercises, then
macfadyen [-\]: But Alex might well do just that
]
;W[dd]
;B[pj]C[macfadyen [-\]: Last game featured a very long joseki
Zureiyaa [4d\]: what a boring fuseki this is
Zureiyaa [4d\]: you mean the on with the ladder?
]
;W[nc]
;B[jp]C[Javaness [1d\]: Alex likes moyo games, perhaps this is a deliberate tactic from Bei Ge
Zureiyaa [4d\]: it's getting even more boring.. -_-
Zureiyaa [4d\]: bei ge plays fast
Zureiyaa [4d\]: probably decided this before hand
macfadyen [-\]: Try loooking up Meijin title games Rin- Kobayashi from 1995, they started just like this and played a 40 move joseki full of ladders
Zureiyaa [4d\]: beforehand*
Zureiyaa [4d\]: hehe
Zureiyaa [4d\]: :)
macfadyen [-\]: I'm sure the players have other things to think about
simpkin [6k\]: matthew - bgaadmin has given you permissions to speak in the other game and would like to know if it's worked
macfadyen [-\]: The traditional ide here is for w to q14 or r14, and then get to play r17 without being surrounded
macfadyen [-\]: This is regarded as locally good for w
Zureiyaa [4d\]: so what if white plays r14 and black r17?
Zureiyaa [4d\]: BGAadmin [-\]: hi matthew - you can chat now
aitkensam [-\]: Bei wins cos he is the stronger fighter?
GeRui [3d\]: without a stone around k16 this is slightly unreasonable for b
GeRui [3d\]: but perhaps possible anyway
macfadyen [-\]: With 3 hours, White can plan a joseki, decide whetehr he'll end in gote, and have alook around. Like this:
]
(;W[dj]C[Zureiyaa [4d\]: white made a move :S
macfadyen [-\]: White went another way
]
;B[lc]C[Javaness [1d\]: D10 is quite unusual isn't it
macfadyen [-\]: This can turn into mirror go
Djaian [5k\]: Javaness, please tell the rest of the joke
]
;W[ne]
;B[pf]
;W[kd]C[Djaian [5k\]: i want to know what happen to this 2 go players
Javaness [1d\]: I only know the first line, sorry
Djaian [5k\]: damn
macfadyen [-\]: L16 very fast, I suspect he feels confident with that joseki
Garvin [?\]: "The third one ducks."
simpkin [6k\]: several possibilities, djaian - I suspect they say ouch, because it's an iron bar, but it's quite possible they just play Go for a few hours, teach the barmaids how to play othello and then go home
light3 [3k\]: outsdie influence?
macfadyen [-\]: There is a simple line here:
Djaian [5k\]: but that would not be a funny story simpkin
]
(;B[oc]C[macfadyen [-\]: If White resists:
]
(;W[nb]
;B[kc]C[macfadyen [-\]: But he's doing it
Zureiyaa [4d\]: :)
Zureiyaa [4d\]: black isn't
macfadyen [-\]: White can switch direction:
]
(;W[jd]
;B[ld]C[Turnipsi [1k\]: are you two brothers ort something, Zureiyaa and macfadyen? Your pictures look just the same.
]
;W[le]
;B[jc]C[aitkensam [-\]: hoho
Javaness [1d\]: no they just uploaded gif files instead of jpgs
Zureiyaa [4d\]: no..
]
;W[id]C[Zureiyaa [4d\]: i actually loaded a black one :)
]
;B[ic]C[Zureiyaa [4d\]: uploaded*
macfadyen [-\]: J17 looks odd
macfadyen [-\]: He can skip to h17
GeRui [3d\]: a trick i guess
Azlaz [?\]: h17 is normal Joseki i think
macfadyen [-\]: Now w can n15 and cause trouble:
macfadyen [-\]: Notice that n15 is better for w than n16 which allows black to play m14 later
macfadyen [-\]: If White just answers hereI expect a fight:
macfadyen [-\]: for which side would you hate it?
simpkin [6k\]: from matthew's fighting line, Zureiyaa, or from the board position?
Zureiyaa [4d\]: both :)
light3 [3k\]: w moved h16
Zureiyaa [4d\]: board position
Zureiyaa [4d\]: so.. it really might happen
Parr [4k\]: is this a handy game?
]
(;W[hd]C[aitkensam [-\]: no parr
Parr [4k\]: didnt think so
Parr [4k\]: thx
]
;B[md]C[macfadyen [-\]: OK here we go
aitkensam [-\]: hmm
aitkensam [-\]: time for alex to think now =))
macfadyen [-\]: White can still switch to p14:
]
(;W[nd]C[macfadyen [-\]: Anyway o16 was forced
]
;B[me]
;W[mf]
;B[nf]C[pitimp [6k\]: it's on youtube
light3 [3k\]: it should be on her website shouldn't it
macfadyen [-\]: More excitement. Black chooses to cut before atari.
macfadyen [-\]: This allows another way
Ishisit [-\]: don't spam the url eurogoTV, it will get you banned instantly
macfadyen [-\]: W really wants to get h17 to expand his moyo
macfadyen [-\]: I dont think h16 can be treated lightly
macfadyen [-\]: W can also try q17 to live while avoiding p14 atari from behind:
Javaness [1d\]: honte is more shameful than hamete
macfadyen [-\]: Here's another way:
macfadyen [-\]: Normally Black should m14 before o14
macfadyen [-\]: Alex likes making large centre territories. I expect him to try to sacrifice the O15 group
FlyingSnow [1d\]: cut the opposite side that you really want to cut kinda thing?
Uberdude [3d\]: in their candidates game he made a big middle
macfadyen [-\]: Yes, and if Black has to spend 2 moves at m14, l15 while w gets 2 good moves that's ok
macfadyen [-\]: but if w answers one of those moves locally he ends with an extra stone next to thickness
FlyingSnow [1d\]: thanks
Ishisit [-\]: so basically , there is a possible loss of move-fight going on
macfadyen [-\]: Yes, there are 2 main lines: White lives and gets shut in or White sacrifices and gets the outside
macfadyen [-\]: The outside line is easier to follow: basically it does this:
meritee [2k\]: the case of white living, where is it?
]
(;W[of]C[simpkin [6k\]: but bei has left the room and may not know that
macfadyen [-\]: This white move is a big commitment. 
Javaness [1d\]: Bei 6 minutes Alex 51
]
;B[ng]C[Djaian [5k\]: bei left the room to quickly log on on KGS and read our comments
macfadyen [-\]: The exchange for O13 is a huge loss in central influence for White
simpkin [6k\]: heh
meritee [2k\]: maybe w is hoping to kill k17 in long run
macfadyen [-\]: Now he must rescue the stones or find something fancy
snake5 [3k\]: i guess he found something fancy
macfadyen [-\]: Just check the semeai
Djaian [5k\]: bigben always right on time
Ishisit [-\]: white to play and avoid timeloss ^^
macfadyen [-\]: White has p13, q15, q17, h17 all available, and all go different ways
meritee [2k\]: m14 too
macfadyen [-\]: Oh yes
meritee [2k\]: m14, q15, p13 is a good plan for w?
Ishisit [-\]: meritee sounds like a real korean il gup
bigben79 [8d\]: yes. b played very aggressive moves
macfadyen [-\]: Alex can easily spend an hour here, but I would prefer him to have thought before playing p14 (which onluy has one answer)
bigben79 [8d\]: i don't think it works for b if w answers well
aitkensam [-\]: Bei is much stronger at middlegame than fuseki
bigben79 [8d\]: he is strong when is behind
]
(;W[lg]C[Javaness [1d\]: so he plays badly at the start
macfadyen [-\]: Heres a move we didnt see coming
light3 [3k\]: :)
meritee [2k\]: this move is more oriented to have p13 follow-up
light3 [3k\]: he does like his moyo :)
Javaness [1d\]: M13 looks very odd
aitkensam [-\]: its not much different to M14 really
macfadyen [-\]: Yes, he improves p13 a little
macfadyen [-\]: no, but how about this line:
sheepgod [30k\]: ?
light3 [3k\]: q15 is very solid
Xorax [3d\]: black made move to g17
macfadyen [-\]: Black decided he couldnt stand h17
snake5 [3k\]: steps out
]
(;B[gc]C[snake5 [3k\]: ^^
light3 [3k\]: the fight continues :)
snake5 [3k\]: w take corner seems logical
meritee [2k\]: bei shaking head = he is not happy about b?
light3 [3k\]: w should push out o13 first?
wicket [-\]: go players just shake their heads lots i think
macfadyen [-\]: Lets look at p13:
light3 [3k\]: helps clear the mind ^_^
]
(;W[og]
;B[nh]C[Djaian [5k\]: black is really playing quickly
macfadyen [-\]: Bei wants to contest the corner. This is going to get complicated
simpkin [6k\]: when you have a multi-layer weak group sandwich, who wins ...? :)
snake5 [3k\]: the one that has more weak groups
snake5 [3k\]: ^^
Muttley [1k\]: the one who makes the last mistake but one :)
Azlaz [?\]: the fuseki might have been boring but it sure is interesting now
snake5 [3k\]: the one with the most points
CardCaptor [1k\]: can black atari at l15 to chase white into the center?
macfadyen [-\]: Remember that life is like a shit sandwich, you got more bread, you east less shit
snake5 [3k\]: lol
snake5 [3k\]: o..k...?
Muttley [1k\]: or you get a nasty surprise in the middle :)
macfadyen [-\]: that as well
CardCaptor [1k\]: these kinds of fuseki never have boring games
CardCaptor [1k\]: not in my experience anyway
CardCaptor [1k\]: and i used to play these exclusively
Djaian [5k\]: moyo against moyo can be very boring
macfadyen [-\]: White will probaably p15 or q15, the differences are fairly small
macfadyen [-\]: he can also try r17
Javaness [1d\]: Alex's clock has lapped Bei's
Muttley [1k\]: White's clock has been informed that it will be required to provide a sample of time for a drug test after the game
meritee [2k\]: are you guys on wireless laptops in tournament room?
macfadyen [-\]: Last game Bei played much faster, but then right at the end he tried to have a slow think and it threw his rhythm
Muttley [1k\]: half point game, he got anxious I guess
macfadyen [-\]: so he forgot whose turn it was to make a ko threat
Azlaz [?\]: ouch
macfadyen [-\]: He will be doing lots of reading in Alex's time, so its not really just 6 minutes hes used
meritee [2k\]: will you lose the game for illegal ko snapback?
meritee [2k\]: or just warned?
bigben79 [8d\]: he was worrying about his car. it was completely destroyed in the flood
Javaness [1d\]: you lose a game for any illegal move
Muttley [1k\]: that's really unfortunate, BB :(
meritee [2k\]: ok
macfadyen [-\]: It was more spectacular than that, he answered a 40 poinbt ko threat with a 20 point threat and got 20 stones captured
simpkin [6k\]: ouch, ben - hadn't realised it was that bad
ndkrempel [3d\]: the car was written off
Muttley [1k\]: I doubt the insurance covered it, they're like that
ndkrempel [3d\]: they did
macfadyen [-\]: Back to this game, normally W should play p15 unless he thinks q15 will be a really good reply for B
ndkrempel [3d\]: bei is currently borrowing wife's car
Muttley [1k\]: good for them :)
oonicks [8k\]: o h8 that ppl buy cars warm the planet cause floods and cyclist have to pay the new ones, its off topic
snake5 [3k\]: looks grim for b actually
Muttley [1k\]: I disagree
macfadyen [-\]: the players have quitre another take:
]
(;W[gd]
;B[fc]C[Muttley [1k\]: I prefer black here
CardCaptor [1k\]: i like black better too
macfadyen [-\]: Maybe W thinks he is already alive
meritee [2k\]: tenuki would be precious here, if could afford one
bayan [1k\]: usually the case :)
macfadyen [-\]: Black cant escape to the centre with g16 anymore
macfadyen [-\]: perhaps he want to cut like a maniac:
]
(;W[qc]C[Muttley [1k\]: the back entrance approach
Muttley [1k\]: for want of a better phrase
macfadyen [-\]: W is looking for a quiet life in sente:
]
(;B[pc]C[macfadyen [-\]: Bk
simpkin [6k\]: it's the empty triangle game?
bayan [1k\]: it's actually good shape
macfadyen [-\]: Empty triangles are often ok
Xorax [3d\]: big difference 6d empty triangle and 6k empty triangle :O
simpkin [6k\]: oh yes :)
Djaian [5k\]: don't say that macfadyen or the 10k and less will believe it
macfadyen [-\]: The r17 q17 exchange has a small but significant effect on several variations
bayan [1k\]: djaian, it is actually true
bayan [1k\]: djaian, people are so scared of them seomtimes that in good situations they just don't play them
Djaian [5k\]: "often ok" is exagerated
bayan [1k\]: cause everyone says they're so bad
oonicks [8k\]: in this case it breaks the connection between r17 and takes a liberty, i suspect b has been thinking to leave iniative in the corner to W and use thinking time after
Muttley [1k\]: lordy, I believe that baaaad shape is gooooooood shape!  Hallelujah praise the lord!
Muttley [1k\]: singing and clapping optional
Azlaz [?\]: proverbs will never be as good as reading out a situation
macfadyen [-\]: I prefer to say, if considering an empty triange, look at the good shape move and have a reaso for rejecting it
samabcde [3d\]: q15 ok?
Muttley [1k\]: presumably, black is saying "White won't settle easily if I can help it" with this move
Xorax [3d\]: black got p16 and n17
Xorax [3d\]: white none o.o
Xorax [3d\]: 2-0
bayan [1k\]: what does 'alex has lapped bei' mean?
CardCaptor [1k\]: empty triangles can show up a lot in fights
macfadyen [-\]: Black wants to be able to cut p15 without p17 getting captured
]
;W[pe]C[oonicks [8k\]: + i hour round the clock
]
;B[qe]C[bayan [1k\]: k
]
;W[oe]
;B[qd]C[yukatto [5k\]: q13?
bayan [1k\]: who do you think is winning?
macfadyen [-\]: Another big decision coming up. White is going to have to make eyes around r12. Should he cut with p12 etc first?
Javaness [1d\]: this result feels awful for white
macfadyen [-\]: Notice that white r18 can live in ko:
bayan [1k\]: if that's the case y doesn't white cut first?
Muttley [1k\]: "don't atari unless you can capture"?
macfadyen [-\]: White must stop r12 anyway, and that comes first. Here are two shapes to try:
CardCaptor [1k\]: is there a rule like that
doidohoi [11k\]: ??
bayan [1k\]: don't capture, only atari
yukatto [5k\]: r18
bayan [1k\]: unless you don't have the controller
]
(;W[qf]
;B[rf]C[bayan [1k\]: woah
bayan [1k\]: B is happy w/ that
CardCaptor [1k\]: yeah
jjermann [4k\]: now no ko in the corner?
bayan [1k\]: yeah
samabcde [3d\]: w is in danger
bayan [1k\]: W is playing poorly now
Muttley [1k\]: white is going to end up in gote
meritee [2k\]: was r17 a mistake?
Muttley [1k\]: small gote life at best?
bayan [1k\]: white is going to end up as a goat
CardCaptor [1k\]: maybe push p12 first
macfadyen [-\]: White may be looking to play p11 and escape
macfadyen [-\]: White can make an eye at m18, but he would rather not have to
CardCaptor [1k\]: escape is probably better than living in gote anyway
hjggf: m18 then m19 works?
CardCaptor [1k\]: since wihte's behind on points i dunno if he can afford gote there
bayan [1k\]: if i was black i would just capture
doidohoi [11k\]: how capture?
CardCaptor [1k\]: i don't know if he has time to capture
macfadyen [-\]: m19 too soon:
pasky [-\]: how is not important, just capture it all
hjggf: ok
Djerem [4k\]: do they have a lot of time left ?
bayan [1k\]: ya 2 hrs
Djerem [4k\]: but now ?
Muttley [1k\]: black, 2hours 50 minutes roughly ;)
Muttley [1k\]: white about 1 hour 40 minutes I guess
pasky [-\]: evil javaness
macfadyen [-\]: r14 was bad shape, letting black get good eyeshape in the corner
CardCaptor [1k\]: wanna play a game bayan? its been a while =D
macfadyen [-\]: the good shape moves were r12 and s13
bayan [1k\]: cardcaptor, yeah man ;
bayan [1k\]: ;)
Djerem [4k\]: I wonder how far goes his imagination right now
Djerem [4k\]: his thinking
Javaness [1d\]: Alex has used 104 minutes, Bei 14
Djerem [4k\]: thx
macfadyen [-\]: Dangerous to ask where Alex's imagination leads
Djerem [4k\]: 104 ?? out of 105 ?
]
(;W[oh]
;B[ni]C[DaveyWeiqi [7k\]: is this a tournament?
macfadyen [-\]: no, they actually have 180 minutes
Djerem [4k\]: oh ok
CardCaptor [1k\]: hhe
Javaness [1d\]: any bets on how many overtime periods we'll see?
zazie [-\]: 42 ?
simpkin [6k\]: yes, Davey - http://www.britgo.org/bchamp/
Muttley [1k\]: 14
wicket [-\]: that's a lot of minutes, has it always been that long?
]
;W[oi]
;B[oj]C[macfadyen [-\]: I dont 
Djerem [4k\]: what is an overtime perdio ?
Javaness [1d\]: I'm guessing 8
]
;W[nj]C[Chris87 [12k\]: what rank is Alex Selby? 4d or 4p? can't see
Javaness [1d\]: 4d
light3 [3k\]: wow 
Chris87 [12k\]: thanks
]
;B[li]C[Vondel [4k\]: ?
Muttley [1k\]: oh, this the game :)
]
;W[qg]C[bayan [1k\]: but what are kgs ranks?
]
;B[rg]C[macfadyen [-\]: Yes. 
Muttley [1k\]: time for white ultraviolence
macfadyen [-\]: This looks lkike funny timing for w
Javaness [1d\]: black is spreading across white's wall
bayan [1k\]: muttley, you've been watching too much clockwork orange
bayan [1k\]: ;)
Muttley [1k\]: viddy that bayan my little uberfriend
macfadyen [-\]: if he now allows r12, then p12 is a gratuitous empty triangle and a bad move
Muttley [1k\]: :))))
meritee [2k\]: is there any way for w to live in sente?
Sandmann [2d\]: can he live in gote?
macfadyen [-\]: but if he r12 there may be no second eye after m18
meritee [2k\]: m18 gote life
]
;W[qh]C[Muttley [1k\]: I would guess only if you can make H17 a threat, so that's a hard one, since you're not going to threaten the corner now
macfadyen [-\]: white has an easy life on the right:
Storken [2k\]: if b r11?
Javaness [1d\]: F3 for black? or is K11 any use?
samabcde [3d\]: w q11
meritee [2k\]: so the battle is more about gote vs sente life?
Muttley [1k\]: don't you lose stones that way, storken?
macfadyen [-\]: if r11, s12 and maybe white can kill the corner??
]
(;B[qj]C[Storken [2k\]: mor to protect right side
Storken [2k\]: than to kill
macfadyen [-\]: r10 is good style
light3 [3k\]: how to kill the corner o.o
CardCaptor [1k\]: black decides to not tangle with a wimpy group hehe
macfadyen [-\]: kill the corner with r18 and live inside it
]
;W[rh]C[light3 [3k\]: ah ok
macfadyen [-\]: now black q18 is hairy
Muttley [1k\]: man, black really did R10
samabcde [3d\]: p18
jjermann [4k\]: a ko white can't lose
simpkin [6k\]: fun for the audience, perhaps ...
Javaness [1d\]: dan players like ko simpkin
Muttley [1k\]: doesn't R10 say "we will both live top right, I will have sente and have more territory"?
SlickShot [4k\]: everybody likes ko
macfadyen [-\]: w has anotehr way
pasky [-\]: if you don't like ko, you don't like go
macfadyen [-\]: Finally Bei is spending some time
]
(;B[oa]C[macfadyen [-\]: he must realise that there is a chance here
macfadyen [-\]: there is yet another way:
]
(;W[na]
;B[lb]C[macfadyen [-\]: Alex thinks he has something in the corner
Kamisama [2k\]: something is going to die ! :D
Muttley [1k\]: does he still have the Q11 S10 T11 sequence to live?
samabcde [3d\]: ko
Javaness [1d\]: seki
Muttley [1k\]: daed
samabcde [3d\]: really?
Muttley [1k\]: dead
Kamisama [2k\]: seki yea right.......
Muttley [1k\]: might as well have all three :)
Javaness [1d\]: what about antiseki
Sandmann [2d\]: what happesns if capture with ladder?
petruskah [6k?\]: is that the original position?
macfadyen [-\]: Again Alex is thinking for a long time one move after the total commitment move
petruskah [6k?\]: ok .. must be 
macfadyen [-\]: anyone have other ideas than r18, s16 in the corner?
simpkin [6k\]: it's far too peculiar for ideas
hadrian [3k\]: s18
simpkin [6k\]: it's one of those board positions I'd tut-tut at my beginners for ... :)
oonicks [8k\]: i think b can try a move there after connecting o16 group and letting w out low, but i am not sure
simpkin [6k\]: "there's a whole rest of board out there you know"
oonicks [8k\]: how to achieve taht for b
Javaness [1d\]: I would be trying to negate the worth of G16 in this game
macfadyen [-\]: at the moment there is definitely not a rest of the board. White must live my some means or other
simpkin [6k\]: indeed
simpkin [6k\]: shows what a good teacher I'm not, see ;)
]
(;W[qb]C[petruskah [6k?\]: nah.. who won the game finaly?
macfadyen [-\]: White has played here
Domsablos [13k?\]: is white bluffing then?
Javaness [1d\]: this isn't poker
macfadyen [-\]: This ought to mean the thinks it works, else he should play s10 and make a ko, then use r18 as threats
wysek [1d\]: this ain't poker...
simpkin [6k\]: pertruskah - this is the game position - we don't know the result yet ebcause it hasn't finished
zedi [1d\]: w cannot make a ko?
]
;B[pb]C[petruskah [6k?\]: oh ^^ erf sry then 
]
;W[rd]C[macfadyen [-\]: next t17 is also possible
meritee [2k\]: can the player leave the room unattended?
]
(;B[re]C[Djaian [5k\]: i think yes, there is no reason they would cheat
macfadyen [-\]: White can get one eye and one ko for his corner group, then fill liberties and get a free move outside
liza [-\]: ^^ 
macfadyen [-\]: notice that white t12 threatens to make an eye cleanly
meritee [2k\]: so all this corner fight is about sente life?
Javaness [1d\]: nothing worse than a dirty eye
jjermann [4k\]: is white 100% alive if it really wants to live?
Sandmann [2d\]: double ko
Kamisama [2k\]: with ko probably
macfadyen [-\]: I think not. We found a ko here:
]
(;W[rb]C[Javaness [1d\]: alex has played the empty triangle
ShaleStone [5k\]: for ko 
ShaleStone [5k\]: mmm
meritee [2k\]: black might even lose o12 group over this ko
macfadyen [-\]: What I would like to see is the corenr becoming ko and Alex refusing to make eyes with s10 ko threat but using q8 and counterattack as his threats
bigben79 [8d\]: b T17, w T16, B T18. w looks dead
]
(;B[sc]C[macfadyen [-\]: White has to be careful not to die in gote
macfadyen [-\]: looks like an indirect ko
macfadyen [-\]: i thought Black had a better ko:
]
(;W[sd]
;B[sb]C[oonicks [8k\]: forcing w to think of  a move to seal 
Javaness [1d\]: white must be close to overtime
oonicks [8k\]: 30 minutes elft about?
macfadyen [-\]: w can be really bold here:
macfadyen [-\]: but many a slip, e.g. s10 at s9 is a whole new can of worms
macfadyen [-\]: I expect Alex to just live here, then play another game in the afternoon
macfadyen [-\]: Bei is sealing his move for lunch at move 66
]
(;W[rc]C[macfadyen [-\]: actually he has to r19 or t15
light3 [3k\]: how long is lunch?
simpkin [6k\]: till 1400 - so another 52 minutes :)
light3 [3k\]: ok :)
zazie [-\]: to lunch is a good idea anyway...
Javaness [1d\]: please eat your lunch
simpkin [6k\]: almost, java, I am tempted to refuse :)
simpkin [6k\]: but
GrandYan [-\]: I just finished my dinner. I can't have lunch again. Please don't boot me :(
mof [1k\]: they must be gorged by now
oonicks [8k\]: when can i stop eating?
nch333: hi
macfadyen [-\]: No noise from bga admin yet
macfadyen [-\]: During lunch I realised that s17 was a seriously bad move, if Black has sealed r19 then t13 is no longer sente
Tinyman [7k\]: what is the status of the corner ?
macfadyen [-\]: Black must r19, else white r19 wins by 1 liberty,
macfadyen [-\]: then the black corner is completely alive
macfadyen [-\]: and white must find eyes.
macfadyen [-\]: white has 2 approaches:
macfadyen [-\]: w can use s10 and try eitehr to make an eye at t11 or a cut at r9
macfadyen [-\]: or w can try n10 and q8 (or near) and try to get a counterattack on q10 which either kills or makes the eye easily
macfadyen [-\]: White may in any case play q11 first, this invites Black to lose a point by playing inside at q13
Javaness [1d\]: I wonder what they had for lunch
macfadyen [-\]: but if Black has any sense he will ignore q11 and wait until it clearly works
Javaness [1d\]: what will the sealed move be? R19
leslielau [3k\]: Lunch?
Javaness [1d\]: there is a break for lunch
leslielau [3k\]: ok
bored [-\]: white will t19 after b r19
Qualx [7k\]: what actually IS white trying to do here?
light3 [3k\]: if w t19 when b r19
bored [-\]: more libs
light3 [3k\]: isn't it seki or something?
hellas [10k\]: why s 17 or white?
macfadyen [-\]: white s17 is at best pointless, i expect he just wanted a quick forcing move to make Bei seal - and r19 was whites best move in the corner
bored [-\]: no, b dies
Qualx [7k\]: black doesnt need to answer this one tho
bored [-\]: if white t13 then b dies
Qualx [7k\]: rly?
macfadyen [-\]: if white t13 then black r19 and wins
light3 [3k\]: o yeh t19 doens't work
Qualx [7k\]: thought so. so s17 was worth negative points for white, and its gote.
bored [-\]: you didn't play the best line for white
bored [-\]: b r19 then white will T19
hellas [10k\]: w t15 instead of t 13
macfadyen [-\]: what is better bored?
]
(;B[qa]C[macfadyen [-\]: now w has to try s10 to live or somewhere near q8 to counterattack
macfadyen [-\]: an interesting question is whether O9 aims at the central stones
]
(;W[pi]C[macfadyen [-\]: he'e trying the polite question
fante7 [1k\]: haha oops I didn't realize I scrolled down
fante7 [1k\]: :D
]
;B[mj]
;W[nk]C[simpkin [6k\]: the polite question?
]
;B[ml]C[macfadyen [-\]: The question is do you really want to kill me , if so i'll have 2 points and a liberty
macfadyen [-\]: now is time for some imagination
light3 [3k\]: r8? ;p
macfadyen [-\]: if black plays anything around r8 it threatens to kill with q13
macfadyen [-\]: so white cant usefully do things like p8
Fabs [2k\]: is this now the actual play?
Amateur [2k\]: yes
Fabs [2k\]: interesting
macfadyen [-\]: but if we think t13 is sente it may be possible to play e.g. r8 with white:
mof [1k\]: this is the game matthew?
Amateur [2k\]: yes
mof [1k\]: t y
Uberdude [3d\]: look at bgaamin for game
mof [1k\]: :)
Azlaz [?\]: u can always see the current game position by looking at the BGAdmin game
macfadyen [-\]: lets try counting. Black top right 12 points, top side 11, bottom right ?
Javaness [1d\]: alex 150 bei 33
Uberdude [3d\]: bottom  right seems huge potential to me
Javaness [1d\]: 30 if white 3-3 ?
macfadyen [-\]: White top 3, komi 6, left side needs to be 14 points bigger than lower right
oonicks [8k\]: why do they give A extra time again;) dont they know Bei alredi calculated d3;)
macfadyen [-\]: so White probably needs to find a way to live fairly comfortably on the right side
ofap [3k\]: I make left only 13 bigger than lower right, so game over
macfadyen [-\]: notice that w can e18 in sente
Uberdude [3d\]: but a b move like d17 seems sente too, so double sente?
macfadyen [-\]: w cant be killed at the moment:
ofap [3k\]: Serious question - roughly how many points is "the best" move worth at the moment (in the game)?
oonicks [8k\]: 0.5-60 aprox?
]
(;W[rj]
;B[rk]C[macfadyen [-\]: if you mean how much komi must white give to be asked to pass?
ofap [3k\]: yes
macfadyen [-\]: at least 40 points
ligo [1d\]: i think the r3 invasion works, and is woth 10 pts and keps sente and probably is not the next play so > 20
macfadyen [-\]: I think Bei will be thinking that the player who gets F3 has an easy endgame
macfadyen [-\]: I am not sure he will agree with me that e18, d17 is bigger
]
;W[qk]C[aitkensam [-\]: wow
Javaness [1d\]: i was thinking about that move
]
;B[ql]C[macfadyen [-\]: this is the play of a man who thinks t12 is sente for white
Djaian [5k\]: and? is it?
simpkin [6k\]: the black play or the white?
Javaness [1d\]: can black E16 by the way (later)
macfadyen [-\]: not in my opinion:
Zureiyaa [4d\]: white is trying to end in sente?
TheClown [3d\]: yeah looks like live now
Djaian [5k\]: so white will t11 now?
Zureiyaa [4d\]: t11?
TheClown [3d\]: r3?
macfadyen [-\]: white is either trying to live in sente at the top or in the corner
macfadyen [-\]: at the moment t11 is 2 clean eyesafter q13
macfadyen [-\]: but if black plays s11 sente white has no aji left
Zureiyaa [4d\]: looks like white can't live in sente
macfadyen [-\]: maybe he has this line?
nicat [1k\]: bl could have sacrified the 3 stones and build a wall
Djaian [5k\]: by the way, how much time did white already use?
macfadyen [-\]: White used 150, black 33 at last count
Djaian [5k\]: 150 minutes on how much?
Zureiyaa [4d\]: hard game for white
Djaian [5k\]: 105?
macfadyen [-\]: 150 out of 180
Sirri [?\]: 180
Djaian [5k\]: ok
Javaness [1d\]: white must have about 10 left
Storken [2k\]: what can he be using his time to think about now?
geoff: see this?
macfadyen [-\]: tempting for white to play some endgame:
oonicks [8k\]: w played t10 b iimmediatly reacted again at p8
]
(;W[sj]
;B[ol]
;W[fd]C[Zureiyaa [4d\]: not misread
]
;B[db]C[Javaness [1d\]: f16 useful for white
Zureiyaa [4d\]: f3 isn't bigger?
]
;W[hp]C[macfadyen [-\]: p8 is odd, why not q9?
Zureiyaa [4d\]: is this the actual game? :o
Storken [2k\]: ye
Javaness [1d\]: H4 feels odd as well
macfadyen [-\]: Yes, this is the game. we can recount:
macfadyen [-\]: Black 12 top right, 15 top
]
;B[cn]C[macfadyen [-\]: White 3 top right, 6 komi
macfadyen [-\]: so black is nearly 20 points ahead before dcomparing the 2 big areas
oonicks [8k\]: this is what i think b wanted , introducing another complex situation on the left perhaps h4 was indeed a bit loose
]
;W[co]
;B[dn]C[Meloku [-\]: B is just 
macfadyen [-\]: White can live at r3 (probably)
Javaness [1d\]: E5 here?
Meloku [-\]: *and if W invades at the sansan, wouldn't the terrirory be equal?
Zureiyaa [4d\]: probably? :p
macfadyen [-\]: or he can invade with something fancy like q7, p4
Zureiyaa [4d\]: p4 huh
Zureiyaa [4d\]: never seen it but as ladder breaker
Hidatsa [1k\]: instead of F16 better E18 as you said before?
macfadyen [-\]: I guess c17 is about as big as anything white can do in the lower right
macfadyen [-\]: so we can regard them as miai and say white c17, black r3
macfadyen [-\]:  then the lower right is about 55
macfadyen [-\]: and white will need 75 on the left
Zureiyaa [4d\]: way too much..
]
;W[eq]
;B[bo]C[macfadyen [-\]: now black can c17 for an easy win
]
;W[bp]C[Zureiyaa [4d\]: before settling the lower left?
Javaness [1d\]: whyever did white play e3?
]
;B[do]
;W[cp]
;B[ck]
;W[cj]
;B[dk]C[macfadyen [-\]: Black is playing the door group strategy, Kobayashi Koichi used to do it a lot
Zureiyaa [4d\]: door group strategy?
Javaness [1d\]: lighting fires you mean?
macfadyen [-\]: You just ignore good shapr and shove straight into the opponent. 
macfadyen [-\]: If he ignores, you live easily and large
macfadyen [-\]: if he answers everything, you live
KawaiiNeko [-\]: heh~
macfadyen [-\]: by making a door group with just enough extra bits and pieces so it happens not to be dead
macfadyen [-\]: the really annoying thing is that black lives with 10 points, not the 2 he gets by making normal good shape
Javaness [1d\]: white must slip into overtime soon
geoff: i think this is fairly standard -at least hong jun wang plays this against me in handicap games
macfadyen [-\]: White now has about 20 points at the bottom
Zureiyaa [4d\]: should hit is often considered as mistake
Zureiyaa [4d\]: shoulder hit
macfadyen [-\]: so needs to find 50 or really trash the lower right
KawaiiNeko [-\]: how much b ahead :o~?
macfadyen [-\]: try this:
]
(;W[qq]
;B[pq]
;W[qp]
;B[qn]C[macfadyen [-\]: getting too late to use q7
geoff: black in overtime
Javaness [1d\]: white you mean
Storken [2k\]: white
geoff: sorry
]
;W[pr]
;B[or]
;W[qr]C[Javaness [1d\]: i bet on 8 overtime periods
]
;B[po]C[macfadyen [-\]: White should O2 before deciding how to live
]
;W[nr]C[simpkin [6k\]: White appears to agree :)
]
;B[os]C[macfadyen [-\]: now black cant p1 cos the corner then lives in sente
macfadyen [-\]: white might even make trouble by o7 and then cut
Turnipsi [1k\]: but he did it anyway
]
;W[cb]
(;B[ej]C[macfadyen [-\]: c18 is bold:
Meloku [-\]: Bei Ge is either thinking very fast, either isn't thiniking a lot :P
macfadyen [-\]: maybe Bei is trying to rush Alex
simpkin [6k\]: or is thinking on Alex's time, Meloku
simpkin [6k\]: but he could indeed be playing the Ken Dackombe tesuji
geoff: unlikely to succeed
KawaiiNeko [-\]: alex is thinking enough time for both~
simpkin [6k\]: (play so fast your opponent joins in and screws up)
]
;W[ek]C[Javaness [1d\]: bei just naturally plays fast
macfadyen [-\]: cunning - use the offer of e9 cut to burn up time, then play d17
]
;B[bj]C[Javaness [1d\]: b10
Javaness [1d\]: double hane
Djaian [5k\]: we all saw what happened then in last game. He could have taken some more seconds to think
]
;W[bi]
;B[bk]C[KawaiiNeko [-\]: last game was on purpose ~ imo :p
Zhab [12k\]: on purpose ?
Zhab [12k\]: o_O
Djaian [5k\]: he wanted KGS people to cry?
Javaness [1d\]: place to resign
KawaiiNeko [-\]: maybe he felt he doesnt need this win~ that he can win all the others~
macfadyen [-\]: there is a nice trap here
]
(;W[ei]C[macfadyen [-\]: no, s5 does not kill cos q1 is sente
meritee [2k\]: oh right!
]
;B[fj]C[KawaiiNeko [-\]: shouldnt here resign already :s~?
KawaiiNeko [-\]: he*~
macfadyen [-\]: w must not forget top play e18 sente
]
(;W[fk]C[macfadyen [-\]: he's going for broke
]
;B[ci]
;W[di]
;B[ch]C[Zureiyaa [4d\]: i think he had no chance :) but to try
Zureiyaa [4d\]: well this seems nonsense
Javaness [1d\]: this feels a touch unreasonable by black to me
macfadyen [-\]: totally unreasonable
macfadyen [-\]: g10 will aim both ways
Javaness [1d\]: i like his style, black is a man after my own heart
Uberdude [3d\]: unreasonable for w surely?
]
;W[gj]C[Uberdude [3d\]: didn't he learn the proverb about hane at head of 2
Javaness [1d\]: G10 so soon?
Djaian [5k\]: oh, there is such a proverb? ☺
simpkin [6k\]: why would b play so unreasonably given he was so far ahead? what have I missed?
oonicks [8k\]: i think b decided his e 10 was wrong
macfadyen [-\]: b is not being unreasonable
]
;B[dc]C[KawaiiNeko [-\]: oh~
]
;W[cc]
;B[cf]C[macfadyen [-\]: no, black decided e10 would give him b10 sente
macfadyen [-\]: and he was right
simpkin [6k\]: ah, I misunderstood
KawaiiNeko [-\]: no more e18 sente~
macfadyen [-\]: look, now white is collapsing completely
Meloku [-\]: is this actual play? why doesn't W resign now?
KawaiiNeko [-\]: this is the game~
]
;W[ce]C[Javaness [1d\]: hands up
Storken [2k\]: j3 looks tasty
]
;B[df]C[macfadyen [-\]: White may still have a tiny chance:
]
(;W[ff]
;B[ro]
;W[rp]
;B[iq]C[macfadyen [-\]: Bei is playing it tight
macfadyen [-\]: As black i would play O3 to tidy up
macfadyen [-\]: White can L10 and make a bit in the centre, but too small
Javaness [1d\]: I thought L12 was bigger than J3
Uberdude [3d\]: e3 looks funny now
macfadyen [-\]: j3 is very tight, it is also territory for both sides, I like it
]
;W[sk]
;B[rl]C[farlaanjar [3k\]: can i talk here?
oonicks [8k\]: i still think o3 was better for w then o2 is that possible?
admun: what?
admun: t9?
Azlaz [?\]: time tesuji im sure
Wraith [2d\]: What's the byo-yomi?
oonicks [8k\]: 10 10
]
;W[ko]
;B[jo]
;W[lk]
;B[mk]
;W[km]
;B[nq]C[macfadyen [-\]: Now white can try O4 and give the corner up temporarily
Ishisit [-\]: white is crushed it seems
macfadyen [-\]: but too late, Black remembered O3 and now little to do
]
;W[sr]C[macfadyen [-\]: White had better N3 or something, and at least try
KawaiiNeko [-\]: b even gets sente :s~
Javaness [1d\]: L6 for black?
oonicks [8k\]: f2;)
macfadyen [-\]: Black can probably k8 and kill all, but m4 is plenty
Ishisit [-\]: hmm the real matthew is speaking :)
macfadyen [-\]: T2 gives up. He had to leave the corenr and try to trash the lower side in sente
Ishisit [-\]: we always tried to make our students , not to kill
Javaness [1d\]: overtime period 2 starts at 135
]
;B[lo]C[Javaness [1d\]: nice move
Storken [2k\]: nice
rowurboat [1k\]: pretty
oonicks [8k\]: yes
geoff: h3 looks ok?
]
;W[ki]C[oonicks [8k\]: looks small
Uberdude [3d\]: h3 is huge
macfadyen [-\]: yes, white h3 aims at L4
Storken [2k\]: h3
oonicks [8k\]: b will reply
]
;B[kj]C[macfadyen [-\]: this is running surprisingly like the last game. hite is 10 points plus behind and trying to make territory in the centre
macfadyen [-\]: but then Bei actually made enough centre
Ishisit [-\]: so where is the ko this time?
]
;W[ji]C[geoff: g2
]
;B[lh]
(;W[kh]C[macfadyen [-\]: white has some nice endgame at the top:
]
;B[jl]C[Ishisit [-\]: so black must play e16 in time
leslielau [3k\]: where can i get the game recorsds of the first game?
leslielau [3k\]: record*
KawaiiNeko [-\]: BGAadmin~
Javaness [1d\]: http://www.britgo.org/bchamp/2007/
KawaiiNeko [-\]: or there~
]
;W[jm]
;B[im]C[leslielau [3k\]: ok
leslielau [3k\]: thx
oonicks [8k\]: i am trying to remember that w d19 w f19 shape thing
oonicks [8k\]: b f19 soz
KawaiiNeko [-\]: wheres macfadyen :o~?
KawaiiNeko [-\]: oh~ i thought you left :s~
KawaiiNeko [-\]: got this massege ~
toadwarble [9k\]: Probably using micro$oft poor sod
macfadyen [-\]: sorry, I went to look for the last game, it is in my 'games' 
]
;W[il]C[KawaiiNeko [-\]: logical explenation, i thought the game ended without notice~
jewel [1k\]: j6 captures?
macfadyen [-\]: does white escape here?
KawaiiNeko [-\]: i think so :o~
fabione [1k\]: yes
Javaness [1d\]: i was wondering if J9 worked
bigben79 [8d\]: oops. sorry. i didn't mean that
]
(;B[hl]
;W[ik]
;B[in]C[macfadyen [-\]: the game goes another way
macfadyen [-\]: L9 looks OK for white
]
;W[kk]
;B[lj]C[Alice9 [1d\]: hmm is w behind?
macfadyen [-\]: now k9 better than k10 cos m7 sente
]
;W[jj]
;B[lm]
;W[ln]C[macfadyen [-\]: this is nice and clean for black
macfadyen [-\]: what???
jewel [1k\]: !
Storken [2k\]: ignore?
Alice9 [1d\]: whats happening?
]
;B[mn]C[Storken [2k\]: what? 
macfadyen [-\]: black could L8
KawaiiNeko [-\]: they mean l8 ~?
]
;W[kl]C[KawaiiNeko [-\]: im so slow :(~
macfadyen [-\]: white woke up first
Storken [2k\]: my kyu head cant keep up now :S
]
;B[kn]
;W[da]
;B[eb]C[macfadyen [-\]: ho ho
Storken [2k\]: mistake
macfadyen [-\]: come on lad, F19
KawaiiNeko [-\]: heh~
Storken [2k\]: will that change outcome of the game?
]
;W[hr]
;B[hq]
;W[gr]C[Alice9 [1d\]: i think its over for w already?
]
;B[gq]C[macfadyen [-\]: depends how black answers
Storken [2k\]: h2?
macfadyen [-\]: f19 is the last chance to do anything
Javaness [1d\]: into 3rd overtime period now
]
;W[fr]
;B[ir]
;W[is]
;B[js]
;W[hs]
;B[jr]C[Zureiyaa [4d\]: give us some sequence starting with f19
]
(;W[be]
;B[bf]
;W[af]
;B[ag]
;W[ae]C[macfadyen [-\]: they played out the other side first
]
;B[bh]C[Zureiyaa [4d\]: i doubt black finds f19
Zureiyaa [4d\]: white*
macfadyen [-\]: alex may be nervous of the cut at e16
macfadyen [-\]: k6 is fairly large, aiming at h7
]
;W[bn]
;B[bm]
;W[ao]C[Javaness [1d\]: fourth overtime period approaches now
Tinyman [7k\]: how many periods ?
Djaian [5k\]: as many as he needs
simpkin [6k\]: unlimited
macfadyen [-\]: Black f13 is good
]
(;B[gm]C[macfadyen [-\]: this stops k6, very solid
macfadyen [-\]: now black can count 50 points at the bottom
]
;W[jn]
;B[kp]C[macfadyen [-\]: with 7 left and 12 top is 69
]
;W[fp]
;B[gp]C[ods [2d\]: t12 looks fairly big now?
macfadyen [-\]: white has 19 + 8 + 3 + 6 + 30 + komi = 66
macfadyen [-\]: so seki at the top is still too small
]
;W[eg]
;B[el]
;W[fo]
;B[fl]
;W[gk]C[macfadyen [-\]: but catching 5 stones after f19, e19 would be enough
Javaness [1d\]: black might e19 now
macfadyen [-\]: White should wait until he has 1 second left then play f19 in agitated fashion
Meloku [-\]: mindgaming :p
]
;B[go]C[macfadyen [-\]: mindgaming is all that is left
Djaian [5k\]: could the players have missed f19, or do they just don't play it cause it would be gote?
]
;W[fn]
;B[sl]C[Djaian [5k\]: it looks like white didn't see that move, what about black?
ods [2d\]: huh?
ods [2d\]: doesn't b t12 catch three stones?
macfadyen [-\]: t13 now is vital
]
;W[sh]
;B[ri]
;W[si]
;B[qi]
;W[pg]C[shawnxcore [12k\]: whats ws strength?
ods [2d\]: what did i read wrong?
]
;B[mg]
;W[lf]C[Javaness [1d\]: 4dan
Javaness [1d\]: s19 now
Meloku [-\]: your count Matthew?
shawnxcore [12k\]: thx
macfadyen [-\]: yes, t12 would catch 3 stones but w will t13 and offer a ko
ods [2d\]: ah ok, thanks
Uberdude [3d\]: time to miss an atari in an endgame ko...
]
;B[se]
;W[am]C[KawaiiNeko [-\]: why not e19 in sente for b :o~?
macfadyen [-\]: i still go for f19 as best chance
simpkin [6k\]: best chance for what precisely?
macfadyen [-\]: Black is winning by the top side + a few
]
;B[bl]C[Javaness [1d\]: 5th overtime period now
macfadyen [-\]: so make a seki at the top might possibly be enough
macfadyen [-\]: but if black e19 the game is absolutely over
]
;W[ob]
;B[ra]C[KawaiiNeko [-\]: so why not do it~ no need to see f19~ e19 is just sente :o~
macfadyen [-\]: white shpuld have taken 2 stones first, one move needing 3 answers is 1 point better
bigben79 [8d\]: o19 is actually not sente for w
]
;W[dg]
;B[cg]C[macfadyen [-\]: not sente but t13 becomes sente, so 2 points sente is big enough
macfadyen [-\]: unless you know about f19
]
;W[em]
;B[dm]C[macfadyen [-\]: I think t2 was last losing move
]
;W[gn]
;B[hn]C[macfadyen [-\]: life in gote was simply too small there
]
;W[hc]
;B[hb]
;W[la]C[macfadyen [-\]: but earlier, white's way of living in the top right was too ponderous, especially i didnt like the crude atari at r14
macfadyen [-\]: then in the fight, white forgot to h17, g18 when it would get the answer j18
macfadyen [-\]: and s18 was not the best fight in the corner, t17 would give a 2 step ko
]
;B[ka]C[macfadyen [-\]: by lunchtime white was in trouble
Alice9 [1d\]: ah
]
;W[ma]C[macfadyen [-\]: f19 still exists
]
;B[jb]C[macfadyen [-\]: but now too late
macfadyen [-\]: black will win by more than 10
]
;W[ea]
;B[fa]
;W[ca]
;B[dh]
;W[eh]
;B[ee]C[macfadyen [-\]: Black has more points around n4 than he could get by killing the lower right corner
Javaness [1d\]: 6th overtime period now
macfadyen [-\]: White had to try something on the lower side
]
;W[ed]
;B[fe]C[macfadyen [-\]: like t2 at O4 and try to work up an attack on k4 to wreck the lower side
Ishisit [-\]: milks the cow
]
;W[ge]
;B[ef]
;W[fi]C[Ishisit [-\]: another one-point gain by black
]
;B[fm]C[macfadyen [-\]: time for white r5
macfadyen [-\]: black can only lose if he is silly enough to play e17
Meloku [-\]: lol
huli [4k\]: we all know he is :)
Javaness [1d\]: if black e17 match fixing inquiry
animexpert: didn't he lose last game with a stupid mistake?
Djaian [5k\]: he did indeed
light3 [3k\]: what did he do ? :P
toadwarble [9k\]: Gives hope for us mortals
]
;W[so]C[Djaian [5k\]: didn't answer a ko threats (many many points)
]
;B[sn]C[Zureiyaa [4d\]: are you mortal?
]
;W[sp]C[Zureiyaa [4d\]: lol
]
;B[qo]C[light3 [3k\]: oh ;0
animexpert: he thought it was his turn to play a threat or so
Zureiyaa [4d\]: he ignored 19 stone atari
light3 [3k\]: ^_^
animexpert: for a 1 point ko?
Djaian [5k\]: exactly, he answered a 50 points ko threat with a 15 points threats
light3 [3k\]: what thats common practice for me
Djaian [5k\]: yes, for the very last ko of game
light3 [3k\]: haha oh no
light3 [3k\]: that must b bad
Djaian [5k\]: a ko like could be one at A6 A7 in this game
simpkin [6k\]: isn't 1-point-ko a slight over-statement of the value of the ko in question?
Javaness [1d\]: np
Djaian [5k\]: or more like q19
Javaness [1d\]: looks like they will make 7 overtime periods
]
;W[en]
;B[fq]
;W[ep]
;B[hk]
;W[hj]
;B[gl]
;W[ps]
;B[al]
;W[an]
;B[sg]C[Djaian [5k\]: actually only Alex will make 7 overtime periods, i bet Bei Ge still has more than hour time
macfadyen [-\]: white has a mildly sneaky ko threat at h19, but otherwise this is simpl,y all over
]
;W[pa]
;B[fb]C[macfadyen [-\]: if white q19, black should f18
]
;W[oa]C[Meloku [-\]: "I won"
]
;B[ll]
;W[jk]C[macfadyen [-\]: very good, he's learned his lesson on fighting unnecessary 1 point ko
KawaiiNeko [-\]: oh~?
Ishisit [-\]: ah black says i won't play ko, he got smart over the first game in the match 
Djaian [5k\]: wait until D15 is filled, then maybe black will answer A12 with a stupid move again
]
;B[de]
;W[ec]
;B[mb]
;W[mc]
;B[od]
;W[eo]
;B[]
;W[]C[Meloku [-\]: Although I can't really tell, to me Bei Ge seems above W
Javaness [1d\]: use the score tool :)
Ishisit [-\]: thx for the insights rubberduck
macfadyen [-\]: Yes, Bei has much more experiance playing at this level
light3 [3k\]: thx for all that commentary Matthew :)
Javaness [1d\]: black wins by 10.5
macfadyen [-\]: Alex only got to 4 dan this year
Javaness [1d\]: thank you to macfadyen and bgaadmin
simpkin [6k\]: thank you matthew
oonicks [8k\]: thx 
Meloku [-\]: thanks both :)
quietman [6k\]: thanks too
Storken [2k\]: thanks alot matthew!
macfadyen [-\]: all good fun
Djaian [5k\]: many thanks
Tinyman [7k\]: thanks for the relay plus comments
KawaiiNeko [-\]: thx~
HarSig [?\]: Yes, Matthew, thanks for the excellent commentary. 
sheeryjay [6k\]: Thanks a lot for insightful commentaries
Uberdude [3d\]: thanks muchly
oonicks [8k\]: about time b won this one;)
sheeryjay [6k\]: game cloned in British room by macfadyen for commentary with players
])
(;B[fg]C[Tinyman [7k\]: oh, ok
]
(;W[eg]
;B[ef]
;W[fh]
;B[fe]
;W[gf]
;B[ed]C[Djaian [5k\]: he must play 10 stones in 10 minutes, but each time he has played 10 stones, he has 10 minutes again
simpkin [6k\]: yes
macfadyen [-\]: gets rid of all the trouble
])
(;W[gg]
;B[fh]
;W[fi]
;B[dh]
;W[gh]
;B[ef])))
(;W[fa]
(;B[fb]
;W[ea]
;B[ga]
(;W[ca])
(;W[hc]
;B[hb]
;W[ca]
;B[ia]C[macfadyen [-\]: this is ok for black
]))
(;B[ea]
;W[hc]
;B[hb]
;W[gb]
;B[ha]
;W[ib]
;B[jb]
;W[ed]
;B[ia]
;W[ec]C[KawaiiNeko [-\]: this isnt~
macfadyen [-\]: this is pretty bad for black
])))
(;B[jn]
(;W[kl]
;B[jk]
;W[lj]C[fabione [1k\]: he can't escape
]
;B[kk]
(;W[lm])
(;W[ll]C[bigben79 [8d\]: microsoft windows+java, what a nightmare
]
;B[kn]C[macfadyen [-\]: ladder
]))
(;W[kk]
;B[jk]C[KawaiiNeko [-\]: heh~
]
(;W[lm])
(;W[kl]
;B[jj]
;W[lj]
;B[hl]
;W[ik]
;B[ij]
;W[hk]
;B[ii]
;W[ih]C[Javaness [1d\]: don't try to blame me bigben
]
;B[kg]
;W[jh]C[macfadyen [-\]: black dies
])))
(;B[jj]C[macfadyen [-\]: this looks nasty
]
;W[in]
;B[ii]
;W[jg]
;B[ik]
;W[hm]
;B[hh]C[macfadyen [-\]: enough for B
Javaness [1d\]: ;)
]))
(;W[da]
(;B[eb]
;W[fa]
(;B[ea]
;W[hc]
;B[hb]
;W[gb]
;B[ib]
(;W[ca]
;B[ha]
;W[ed])
(;W[ed]
;B[ca]
;W[ec]))
(;B[gb]
;W[ea]
;B[ga]
;W[hc]
;B[hb]
;W[ia]
;B[jb]
;W[ka]
;B[la]
;W[ja]C[macfadyen [-\]: seki
macfadyen [-\]: but not really??
Muttley [1k\]: jinkies :)
]))
(;B[fa]C[macfadyen [-\]: this works better
geoff: where does matthew get all those wonderful toys ?
macfadyen [-\]: 30 years of playing this match
])))
(;W[nm]
;B[nl]
;W[oq]
;B[nq]
;W[op]
;B[mr]
;W[np]
;B[mq]C[Zhab [12k\]: how tiny ?
rowurboat [1k\]: come on alex, row bei's boat
]
;W[on]C[KawaiiNeko [-\]: heh~
macfadyen [-\]: this does not really do anything yet, but it gets a bit farther than Black may expect, so a few preparing moves around L8 might possibly wake something up
Am [5d\]: k7 
]))
(;W[eb]
;B[ec]
;W[dc]
;B[fb]
;W[da]
;B[ci]
;W[hc]
;B[hb]
;W[fa]))
(;W[ch]
;B[ei]
;W[el]
;B[dh]
;W[ci]C[KawaiiNeko [-\]: or to make it dramatic :)~
meritee [2k\]: b s5 kills?
]
;B[cf]
;W[dg]
;B[eg]
;W[be]C[simpkin [6k\]: that would be inordinately arrogant - whihc doesn't seem characteristic, to me
macfadyen [-\]: this move escapes quite well and leaves b in trouble
]))
(;B[dc]
;W[cc]
;B[cd]
(;W[de]
;B[bd]
;W[bc]
;B[ab])
(;W[bd]
;B[ed]
;W[ce]
;B[ee])))
(;W[om]
;B[nl]
;W[pm]
;B[pl]
;W[op]
;B[oq]
;W[nq]
;B[pq]
;W[ko]C[Zureiyaa [4d\]: interesting one
macfadyen [-\]: somehow white has to make e3 look like a good thick move
Meloku [-\]: but even then, C17 would garantuee a win no?
macfadyen [-\]: not guarantee if k4 dies on a big scale
Zureiyaa [4d\]: white made a move
macfadyen [-\]: hes gone for the 3-3 point
]))
(;W[pk]
;B[ok]
;W[pl]
(;B[ri]
;W[sj]
;B[si]
;W[qi]
;B[sk]
;W[rj]
;B[ol]
;W[sh]
;B[sj]
;W[sa]
;B[sb]
;W[sc]
;B[pa]
;W[sg]
;B[ra]
;W[sf]
;B[se]C[macfadyen [-\]: i dont dsee an improvement for w
])
(;B[ol]
;W[pm]
;B[ri]
;W[rl]
;B[sj]
;W[pg]
;B[qo]
;W[rn]
;B[ro]
;W[qm]
;B[sm]
;W[om]
;B[nm]
;W[oo]
;B[nn]C[Zureiyaa [4d\]: seems hard to live
]
;W[sn]
;B[sl]
;W[po]
;B[pq]C[macfadyen [-\]: white looks dead
macfadyen [-\]: and the cutting stones O9 died in gote
]))
(;W[eb]
(;B[ri]
;W[pg])
(;B[fb]C[Zureiyaa [4d\]: can white actually tenuki?
]
;W[fq]
;B[ri]
;W[pg]C[Zureiyaa [4d\]: oh...
Zureiyaa [4d\]: misread
macfadyen [-\]: yes but s11 is sente
])))
(;W[sg]
;B[ra]
(;W[ql]C[light3 [3k\]: can w live in sente?
macfadyen [-\]: heres another way:
]
;B[rk]
;W[ol]
;B[rl]
;W[qn]
;B[qm]
;W[pm]
;B[rm]
;W[po]
;B[ro]
;W[op]
;B[qp]
;W[pg]C[macfadyen [-\]: if w can live in sente this is good
])
(;W[rl]
;B[pl]
;W[qn]
;B[rj]
;W[pg]
;B[qp]
;W[nl]
;B[mm]
;W[nm]
;B[pn]
;W[on]
;B[pm]
;W[mn]C[aitkensam [-\]: would anyone choose white in this game?
macfadyen [-\]: there may be things like this
macfadyen [-\]: I would not chose white, but if he had remembered to play h17, g18 before O19 that would be another story
]))
(;W[po]
;B[ql]
;W[sg]
;B[ra]
;W[rj]
;B[rk]
;W[sj]
;B[qp]C[macfadyen [-\]: White uses q5 to force black to say how he will threaten the top group
macfadyen [-\]: then black ends in gote
jewel [1k\]: but bad for w
macfadyen [-\]: not clear this is better than simply playing q13 and waiting
toadwarble [9k\]: Time check?
])
(;W[eb]
;B[pg]
;W[rj]
;B[rk]
;W[si]
;B[qi]
(;W[qk]C[macfadyen [-\]: this works for white, and at the top
aitkensam [-\]: Black S10 or S9 could be a pretty darned nice sente move though
])
(;W[fb]
;B[gb]
;W[ga]
;B[hb]
;W[jb]C[aitkensam [-\]: makes lower right quite strong
macfadyen [-\]: yes, i agree, but w can e18 threatening to kill, and then must find his clever play around r8
])))
(;W[nk]
;B[rk]
;W[kj]
;B[ki]
;W[ji]
;B[lj]
;W[lk]
;B[jh]
;W[jj]
;B[kh]
;W[mi]
;B[mh]C[Javaness [1d\]: not L13?
]
;W[mj]
;B[lh]
;W[jf]
;B[ih]
;W[hi]C[fante7 [1k\]: fastplay??
jasonlai [1d\]: won't be like that XD
macfadyen [-\]: black needs 9 liberties to go back and capture the group
]))
(;B[ri]
(;W[sg]C[light3 [3k\]: b can push in with q19 and w dies :D
]
;B[qa]C[bored [-\]: r19 then w t19
bored [-\]: T19
hellas [10k\]: t 19 then s19?
]
(;W[ra]
;B[pa]C[mof [1k\]: Iam told they had roast beef
macfadyen [-\]: Wait a minute - maybe Black can seal s11 and kill all.
mof [1k\]: and yorkshire pudding
]
;W[od]C[bored [-\]: t19
]
;B[se]C[bored [-\]: not s19
macfadyen [-\]: one liberty short
])
(;W[sa]C[light3 [3k\]: try q19 first
]
(;B[sb]C[bored [-\]: w t19
light3 [3k\]: just q19 is fine i think
macfadyen [-\]: t19 gets t18
]
;W[sc]C[hellas [10k\]: now s 19?
]
;B[pa]
;W[ob]
;B[ra]C[bored [-\]: ah yes, ok
jasonlai [1d\]: ko,_,
]
;W[od]C[macfadyen [-\]: this is ko though, try again
aitkensam [-\]: so O10 will die
])
(;B[pa]
;W[od]
;B[ra]
;W[ob]
;B[sb]
;W[se]C[Javaness [1d\]: oops
light3 [3k\]: o.o
hellas [10k\]: loool
macfadyen [-\]: white wins this
bored [-\]: b has to t18
bored [-\]: which is ko
light3 [3k\]: what if b t14
Qualx [7k\]: lol we were all wrong :)
light3 [3k\]: first
bored [-\]: after w t19
macfadyen [-\]: seems s11 is at least a bit dangerous
]))
(;W[rj]
;B[qi]
;W[si]C[macfadyen [-\]: so, going back,
macfadyen [-\]: at this point black cant s9
light3 [3k\]: s10 looks like good move :)
]
(;B[rk]
;W[se]
;B[sf]C[admun: thanks
]
;W[sa]
;B[sb]
;W[sc]
;B[pa]
;W[ob]
;B[sh]C[nein [3d\]: h17 threat?
]
;W[hc]
(;B[sj]
;W[ib]
;B[jb]
;W[hb]
;B[ma]
;W[ka]
;B[ja]
;W[la]
;B[mb]C[aitkensam [-\]: L19 is move liberties than N19?
macfadyen [-\]: fantastic result for w
aitkensam [-\]: more*
macfadyen [-\]: here white wants a seki, so that O12 group is really heavy
macfadyen [-\]: Seems s11 is a bit bold as a sealed move
macfadyen [-\]: in this variation h18 is so big black can lose while killing the O15 group
light3 [3k\]: are they thinking through lunch? :)
simpkin [6k\]: you have to hope so :)
macfadyen [-\]: Players always think through lunch if they are playing half way decently
meritee [2k\]: how is it seki? as i see b L17 group dies
macfadyen [-\]: you can tell by the glazed expression and drivelling conversation
light3 [3k\]: :D
admun: Is this the real game?
macfadyen [-\]: ok not even seki, but the point is w has real ko threats at h17
])
(;B[hb]
;W[sg]
;B[fd]
;W[sh]
;B[ef]
;W[cf]
;B[jh]C[macfadyen [-\]: black better drop his corner and get on with the game like this
fante7 [1k\]: no way F16 is big enough
fante7 [1k\]: but I gues there's nothing
macfadyen [-\]: I agree, so if black cant fight the ko he should not try to kill
macfadyen [-\]: Players are back from lunch, and the sealed move was r19
light3 [3k\]: but this looks nice for black :)
]))
(;B[ra]
;W[rk]
;B[pl]
;W[mj]
;B[lh]
;W[qm]C[macfadyen [-\]: this is fine for white, who gets into the lower right
macfadyen [-\]: so black should not try so hard to kill
Azlaz [?\]: admun: look at the BGAdmin game to see the current position
macfadyen [-\]: s10 is crucial here because t11 is sente to make a good ko
])))
(;W[sh]
;B[qa]
;W[rj]
;B[rk]
;W[sj]
;B[qi]
;W[pi]
;B[pg]
(;W[mj]
;B[lh]C[macfadyen [-\]: this way white seems to die completely
])
(;W[nk]
;B[kj]
;W[ql]
;B[rl]
;W[qm]C[Wraith [2d\]: What about W T13 instead of T12?
]
;B[rm]
;W[si]
;B[qk]
;W[qn]
;B[pl]
;W[om]
;B[qo]
;W[rn]
;B[ol]
;W[nl]
;B[pm]
;W[pn]
;B[on]
;W[nm]
;B[po]C[Javaness [1d\]: cute
macfadyen [-\]: i dont believe white has anything here
]))))
(;W[mj]
;B[lh]
;W[pl]
;B[rj]
;W[qm]
;B[ok]
;W[ml]C[Javaness [1d\]: he played S17 instead though
macfadyen [-\]: if he could manage this, white would have a big win
macfadyen [-\]: It looks like s18 at t17 would definitely get a ko, albeit a 2 step one
Javaness [1d\]: interesting line
]))
(;W[sd]C[petruskah [6k?\]: oki ty fabs
Hidatsa [1k\]: British cahmpionship
bigben79 [8d\]: yes. it's dead. but t13 becomes sente for w
bigben79 [8d\]: thanks matthew
macfadyen [-\]: oh yes, and t13 makes the outside alive:
macfadyen [-\]: the players will stop for lunch innmabout 5 minutes
macfadyen [-\]: so we expect this??
]
(;B[qa]
;W[ra]
;B[se]
;W[rc]
;B[sb]C[zazie [-\]: two-step ?
]
;W[pa]
;B[ob]
;W[sg]
;B[qa]C[bigben79 [8d\]: T18 a clean kill?
joshiva [2d\]: would b ignore wH17?
]
;W[pl]
;B[ql]
;W[pa]C[meritee [2k\]: w has t19 as 1 threat too
Sandmann [2d\]: oh
]
;B[fd]
;W[od]
;B[qa]
;W[sa]
;B[sb]
;W[pa]
;B[ef]
;W[sf]
;B[cf]C[meritee [2k\]: blitz?
macfadyen [-\]: This might be a good game for Black
]
;W[mj]
;B[lh]
;W[qm]
;B[pm]C[macfadyen [-\]: plenty to fight about
macfadyen [-\]: I think the players are stopping for lunch
meritee [2k\]: this game is getting more exciting with every move
])
(;B[sb]
(;W[qa]
;B[sa]C[petruskah [6k?\]: no one knows?
]
;W[sg]
;B[se]
;W[rc]
;B[pa]
;W[ra]
;B[sb]C[Fabs [2k\]: see owner info, petruskah ;)
macfadyen [-\]: looks like Bigben's line works for Black
])
(;W[rj]
;B[rk]
;W[sj]
;B[ql]C[bigben79 [8d\]: probably
]
;W[sg]
;B[se]
;W[qi]
;B[fd]C[macfadyen [-\]: w really missed out by not playing h17, g18 before O19
Javaness [1d\]: i wonder what the clock times are now
Javaness [1d\]: white has played T16
Javaness [1d\]: next move will be sealed perhaps?
oonicks [8k\]: t18 played
]))
(;B[se]
;W[rc]
;B[sb]
;W[sg]
(;B[sa])
(;B[qa]
;W[rj]
;B[rk]
;W[sj]
;B[qi]
;W[ri]
;B[sh]
;W[pi]
;B[pg]
;W[qk]C[macfadyen [-\]: now no ladder
]))))
(;B[sd]
;W[sc]
;B[se]
;W[qa]
;B[sa]
;W[ob]
;B[pa]
;W[sg]
;B[sb]
;W[ra]
;B[sb]
;W[sa]
;B[rc]C[petruskah [6k?\]: by the way what is that game part of? USGO open?
macfadyen [-\]: now w has no local threat in the corner
]))
(;W[rj]
;B[rk]
;W[si]
;B[qi]
;W[pi]
;B[pg]
;W[qk]
;B[ql]
;W[rl]
;B[pk]
;W[sk]
;B[rm]
;W[qk]
;B[pm]
;W[ri]
;B[rk]C[jjermann [4k\]: hmm then double ko?
jjermann [4k\]: with the corner group?
macfadyen [-\]: this would be good enough to make an infinite supply of ko threats for the corner
meritee [2k\]: but look at the damage that w faces with such pyrrhos' life
macfadyen [-\]: though black gets extremely think outside and can play the game after losing the corner group
]))
(;B[re]
;W[sc]
;B[rb]
;W[ra]
;B[sb]
;W[pa]C[macfadyen [-\]: White gets some sort of ko
jjermann [4k\]: ko?
]))
(;W[rj]
;B[rk]
(;W[si]
;B[qi]
;W[pi]
;B[pg]
;W[qk]C[Sandmann [2d\]: ladder?
Kamisama [2k\]: s8 extend?
Muttley [1k\]: nice to think that white has actually seen all this
]
(;B[rl]
;W[mj]
;B[mi]
;W[ql]
;B[qm]
;W[ok]C[Assu [4d\]: lol
macfadyen [-\]: this is plan A
Muttley [1k\]: so, still works
SlickShot [4k\]: bum bum bum
])
(;B[ql]
;W[rl]
;B[pk]
;W[sk]
;B[rm]
;W[qk]
;B[pm]
;W[ri]
;B[rk]C[Sandmann [2d\]: cool
]
;W[qb]C[macfadyen [-\]: White gets 2 kos
]))
(;W[qi]
;B[sj]
;W[si]C[macfadyen [-\]: this ko is hard for white cos there are no threats against the corner
TheBrute [1k\]: tucko
]))
(;W[qb]
;B[pb]
;W[rd]
;B[re]
(;W[rb]
;B[sc]
;W[sd]
;B[qa]
;W[ra]
;B[sb]
;W[pa]
;B[ob]
;W[sg]
;B[se]
;W[rc]
;B[qa]
;W[rj]C[macfadyen [-\]: this is plan B
Muttley [1k\]: nice ko for white
meritee [2k\]: yes w has countless ko threats
])
(;W[rc]
;B[se]
;W[sg]
;B[sb]
(;W[ob]
;B[pa]
;W[qa]C[simpkin [6k\]: but my usual argument would be that some time *earlier* one or both of them shouldn't have got into such close fighting so early in the game, I think
])
(;W[sd]
;B[rb]
;W[ra]
;B[pa]C[tsutsu75 [11k\]: seki
]
(;W[od]C[petruskah [6k?\]: heu.. who won?
])
(;W[qa]
;B[sc]
;W[sa]
;B[sb]
;W[od]
;B[rb]C[macfadyen [-\]: not good enough for W
Assu [4d\]: is it a lunch break in the game?
tsutsu75 [11k\]: ?
light3 [3k\]: always 1 short >_>
])))))
(;W[lb]
;B[kb]
;W[mc]
;B[la]
;W[ma]
(;B[ja])
(;B[ka]
;W[hc]
;B[hb]
;W[gb]
;B[ia]
;W[fb]
;B[jb]
;W[rj]
;B[rk]
;W[si]C[macfadyen [-\]: it would be nice for white to get those moves in at the top
SlickShot [4k\]: peegoanhey
]))
(;W[hc]
;B[hb]
;W[gb]C[Muttley [1k\]: that's the problem with trying to kill the N18 eye, it brings H17 into play
]
(;B[ib]C[macfadyen [-\]: just here is also ok
]
(;W[na])
(;W[lb]
;B[kb]C[petruskah [6k?\]: yeh i opened it already ty
]
;W[na]
;B[la]C[macfadyen [-\]: this is an improvement, takes much of the fun out of black f16
]))
(;B[fb]
;W[ib]
;B[ga]
;W[lb]
;B[kb]
;W[la]C[simpkin [6k\]: petruskah - if you open BGAadmin's game (also in the EGR) you can see the current postion
]
;B[ia]
;W[na])))
(;B[pb]
(;W[lb]
;B[kb]
;W[oa]
;B[mb]
;W[qb]
;B[pa]
;W[rd]
;B[re]
;W[rb]C[light3 [3k\]: r10 looks so strong :)
CardCaptor [1k\]: ko for the game?
]
;B[sg]
;W[pi]
;B[pg]C[CardCaptor [1k\]: thats cus it is strong
]
;W[rj]
;B[rk]C[bayan [1k\]: W= death
]
;W[qi]
;B[sj]
;W[si]
;B[sk]
;W[qk]
;B[ri]
;W[mj]
;B[lh]
;W[rj]C[macfadyen [-\]: this would be fun
zazie [-\]: :)
light3 [3k\]: ^_^
])
(;W[pi]
;B[pg]
;W[rj]
;B[rk]
;W[si]
(;B[qi]
;W[qk]C[bayan [1k\]: pasky, that's like saying if you don't like go you don't like go
]
;B[rl]
;W[mj]
;B[mi]
;W[ql]
;B[qm]
;W[ok]C[pasky [-\]: well that's the point
SlickShot [4k\]: except the g is a k
macfadyen [-\]: Hard for black to kill here
Vondel [4k\]: au
])
(;B[ql]C[macfadyen [-\]: so black will just make nice shape
light3 [3k\]: yes r8 look bad for w ;)
]
;W[oa]
;B[fd]
;W[qb]
;B[pa]
;W[rd]
;B[re]
;W[rb]
;B[sg]
;W[se]
;B[sc]
;W[qa]
;B[sd]
;W[sb]
;B[sf]
;W[rc]
;B[se]
;W[ob]
;B[ra]C[SlickShot [4k\]: what?
macfadyen [-\]: probably nothing works
]))))
(;B[lb]
;W[pi]
;B[pg]
;W[qj]
;B[qk]
;W[pk]
;B[ok]
;W[rk]
;B[ql]
;W[rl]C[Muttley [1k\]: heh, live and kill O11, it's a plan
samabcde [3d\]: i think w matbe better if play q11 earlier
macfadyen [-\]: There is no actual survival problem
]))
(;W[qg]
;B[ph]
;W[pg]
;B[rg]
;W[qh]
;B[pi]
;W[lb]
;B[kb]
;W[la]
;B[ka]
;W[mb]
;B[ob]
;W[na]C[bayan [1k\]: W is living as a gote there
meritee [2k\]: so ugly life :)
Muttley [1k\]: R18 still bad aji
Muttley [1k\]: there's still stuff
CardCaptor [1k\]: problem is center
bayan [1k\]: not too much bad stuff
macfadyen [-\]: this allows black extra eye space at k18 as well as getting p18
doidohoi [11k\]: R18 not bad
macfadyen [-\]: but at least white lives and the np12 cut is still there
])
(;W[lb]
;B[la]
;W[kb]
;B[jb]
;W[ma]
;B[mc]
;W[mb]
;B[ka]
;W[ja]
;B[ka]
;W[ob]C[macfadyen [-\]: gets an eye anyway
Djerem [4k\]: how much time do they have left ?
CardCaptor [1k\]: um h17
bayan [1k\]: yeah
bayan [1k\]: h17
macfadyen [-\]: quite apart from h17 now working
bayan [1k\]: that would be dumb of black
bayan [1k\]: lol
bayan [1k\]: ;)
]))
(;W[qb]
;B[pb]
;W[qa]
;B[pa]
;W[rd]
;B[re]
;W[rb]
;B[sd]
;W[sc]C[macfadyen [-\]: Black will be worried by this possibility
])
(;W[qh]
;B[qf]
;W[oh]
;B[ni]
;W[rj])
(;W[oh]C[oonicks [8k\]: i dont agree with that mutley
]
;B[ni]
;W[rg]C[yukatto [5k\]: if W r18 >q18>t17
bayan [1k\]: i always hear the opposite of that rule
bayan [1k\]: don't atari when you can capture
]
;B[qf]
;W[oi]
;B[oj]
;W[nj]
;B[lh]
;W[qi]
;B[qj]
;W[ri]C[Muttley [1k\]: oh, "can't" :)
pasky [-\]: so it boils down to "never atari"
macfadyen [-\]: This is more violent, neither side has eyes yet
Muttley [1k\]: yes, typo :)
CardCaptor [1k\]: don't atari, always capture
]))
(;B[oe]
(;W[od]
;B[pe]
;W[pc]
;B[re]C[macfadyen [-\]: This might not be necessary.
]
;W[fd]
;B[dc]
;W[cc]
;B[ed]
;W[ee]
;B[ec]
;W[cd]C[Muttley [1k\]: isn't this too good for white?
]
;B[ik]C[bayan [1k\]: no
macfadyen [-\]: But Black gets sente for this move (or near)
])
(;W[pg]C[yukatto [5k\]: what happend?
macfadyen [-\]: White can also try to fight here
bayan [1k\]: ko
]
;B[qg]
;W[qf]
;B[pe]
;W[qh]
;B[rg]
;W[ph]
;B[rh]
;W[oi]C[Muttley [1k\]: bgaadmin D for game, yuk
]
;B[ob]C[macfadyen [-\]: I dont believe this line
])))
(;W[oh]C[Javaness [1d\]: http://www.britgo.org/bchamp/2007/
]
(;B[oi]
;W[ni]
;B[mi]
;W[nj]
;B[mh]
;W[pe]
;B[qe]
;W[oe]
;B[qd]
;W[qi]
;B[qj]
;W[qg]
;B[qf]
;W[rh]C[bayan [1k\]: wow they are playing fast
Javaness [1d\]: this is not the game
meritee [2k\]: no its not them
macfadyen [-\]: yet another weak group to attack??
meritee [2k\]: its the robot-mac
])
(;B[ni]
;W[oi]
;B[oj]
;W[nj]
;B[lh]
;W[pe]
;B[qe]
;W[oe]
;B[qg]
;W[qh]
;B[qc]
;W[rg]
;B[rf]
;W[pg]
;B[qf]
;W[rj]C[Hidatsa [1k\]: Which byoyomi system?
]
;B[fd]C[meritee [2k\]: absolute
meritee [2k\]: no?
Javaness [1d\]: 10 stones in 10 minutes
meritee [2k\]: ok
Muttley [1k\]: getting S10 seems pretty crucial for getting some air and burrowing into black's moyo at the bottom right
Javaness [1d\]: 3 hours main time is it?
macfadyen [-\]: Not clear here whether the O10- m12 exchange is good for W who has a busy position
])))
(;W[pe]
;B[qe]
;W[oe]
;B[qd]
;W[qh]
;B[qf]
;W[oh]
;B[ni]
;W[pb]
;B[qb]
;W[rj]C[macfadyen [-\]: Weak groups everywhere, what fun
])
(;W[oe]
;B[pe]C[Muttley [1k\]: doesn't white want black to have cutting points by wedging in rather than just connect?
]
;W[pg]
(;B[rf]C[bigben79 [8d\]: he thought he has won the game , then started thinking about how to save the car and get back home
CardCaptor [1k\]: white pushed for middle?
]
;W[rg]
;B[qg]
;W[qh]
;B[qf]
;W[pi]
;B[oj]
;W[qj]C[macfadyen [-\]: This would be comfortable for W
CardCaptor [1k\]: whoa
])
(;B[qi]C[Muttley [1k\]: lesson: it's not over until it's over
macfadyen [-\]: This would be a shot at killing
CardCaptor [1k\]: i think white played g16
]
;W[qh]
;B[ri]
;W[qf]
;B[re]
;W[qc]
;B[ob]
;W[rd]C[Javaness [1d\]: they have played something different in the game
]
;B[qe]
;W[rf]
;B[se]
;W[rh]C[macfadyen [-\]: Someone will die
])))
(;W[og]
;B[mg]
;W[lf]
;B[oh]C[burtabel [4d\]: m13 just seems--wrong
]
(;W[pg]
;B[oe]C[twillo [5d\]: neck pain from staring at the board
light3 [3k\]: maybe w q15
]
(;W[ph]
;B[oi]C[Javaness [1d\]: always shake your head and sigh during the game
]
;W[qc]
;B[pc]
;W[qf]
;B[pe]
;W[qe]
;B[qd]C[light3 [3k\]: demoralises the opponent does it ;p
]
(;W[qb]
;B[re]
;W[rf]
;B[qg])
(;W[rg]
;B[rc]C[Muttley [1k\]: s12?
CardCaptor [1k\]: hello
macfadyen [-\]: I dont see this working for w
light3 [3k\]: dinner time! bbl
]))
(;W[pc]
;B[qc]
;W[pb]C[light3 [3k\]: instead of q13
]
;B[qg]C[macfadyen [-\]: now no point in p13
]))
(;W[oe]C[macfadyen [-\]: have to connect here
]
;B[pg]
;W[ph]
;B[oi]
;W[pe]
;B[qe]
;W[qd]
;B[rf]
;W[qc]C[meritee [2k\]: not bad for w
snake5 [3k\]: easy exchange
macfadyen [-\]: now r12 looks awkward, so this might be best for w
Azlaz [?\]: R17 at S15 dont work ?
meritee [2k\]: w m12 is sente maybe before r17?
macfadyen [-\]: no, dont play m12 here, maybe o12 will work
macfadyen [-\]: the players disagree:
])))
(;B[pe]
;W[og]
;B[mg]
;W[lf]
(;B[oe]C[meritee [2k\]: ladder
Zureiyaa [4d\]: ?
])
(;B[oh]C[meritee [2k\]: :)
]
;W[pc]
;B[qc]
;W[pb]
;B[qb]
;W[od]
;B[mb]
;W[pg]
;B[oe]
;W[ph]
;B[oi]C[aitkensam [-\]: infact M14 is clearly better? Cos P12 wont work then i think
snake5 [3k\]: w very dead
sheepgod [30k\]: w is dead
meritee [2k\]: seems so
macfadyen [-\]: Maybe white can get the right to live on the right side before sacrificing with h17
sheepgod [30k\]: n11 ??
])))
(;W[lf]C[FlyingSnow [1d\]: that ko would be enough to determine this game though?
macfadyen [-\]: But I am not quite sure the semeai is ko
meritee [2k\]: w can maybe avoid the critical ko by p13
meritee [2k\]: creating more libs
macfadyen [-\]: White can definitely live if he wants to
]
(;B[oe]C[macfadyen [-\]: This now impossible
]
;W[od]
;B[pe]
;W[pc]
;B[qc]
;W[pb]
;B[qb]
;W[lb]C[macfadyen [-\]: White lives
])
(;B[pe]
;W[hc]
;B[ob]
;W[ib]
;B[jb]
;W[hb]
;B[mb]
;W[ma]
;B[la]
;W[na]
;B[oa]C[meritee [2k\]: w p13?
]
;W[lb]
;B[kb]
;W[mc]C[meritee [2k\]: breaks out?
]
;B[oe]C[Ishisit [-\]: yep p13 and set up ladder
macfadyen [-\]: White gained a liberty by playing p14
macfadyen [-\]: This may be what he is trying to do
light3 [3k\]: wow a ko o.o
]))
(;W[oe]C[Javaness [1d\]: hello big ben
macfadyen [-\]: Good morning bigben, you arrive at a big turning point
]
;B[og]
;W[pe]
;B[qe]
;W[qd]
;B[qf]
;W[qc]C[macfadyen [-\]: This takes the corner
snake5 [3k\]: in sente as well
FlyingSnow [1d\]: what happens if b r17
macfadyen [-\]: Suppose white now tries to play endgame:
]
(;B[lf]
;W[hc]
;B[mg]
;W[qq]
;B[qp]
;W[pq]
;B[oq]
;W[or]
;B[nq]
;W[nr]
;B[mq]
;W[rp]
;B[ro]
;W[rq]
;B[qn]
;W[fq]C[macfadyen [-\]: This is 4 corners against one side. I prefer White
macfadyen [-\]: But if Black cant allow h17:
])
(;B[gc]
;W[lf]
;B[gd]
;W[jf]
;B[gf]
;W[ji]
;B[dg]
;W[cc]
;B[gh]
;W[ql]C[bigben79 [8d\]:   good morning matthew. good morning java
macfadyen [-\]: A completely different game, with p13 possibly even becoming a weak group
])))
(;W[of]
;B[ng]C[Javaness [1d\]: http://www.britgo.org/bchamp/2007/
]
(;W[pe]
;B[og]
;W[oe]C[pitimp [6k\]: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=guo+juan+lecture+one
]
;B[qe]
;W[qf]
;B[pg]
;W[qd]
;B[re]
;W[qc]
;B[lf]C[pitimp [6k\]: I am not sure which part.. there are 9 parts in the lecture
]
;W[mg]
;B[ke]
(;W[hc]C[pasky [-\]: pitimp: thank you
zazie [-\]: that could'nt be good for white anyway...
zazie [-\]: M12 then ?
macfadyen [-\]: This could be very good for w
zazie [-\]: argh :)
macfadyen [-\]: The corner is quite big, and Black is not alive, so he needs to capture n13
pasky [-\]: pitimp: oh, I actually was on most of that lecture, so it should be around the start ;)
])
(;W[mi]
;B[gc]C[macfadyen [-\]: Not much point in pulling the cutting stone
light3 [3k\]: this result looks safer then if b gets corner :)
pasky [-\]: macfadyen: can w now afford to treat his center groups lightly?
]))
(;W[og]
;B[oe]
;W[lf]
;B[oh]
;W[od]
;B[pe]
;W[pc]
;B[qc]
;W[pb]
;B[qb]
(;W[hc]C[macfadyen [-\]: Now the capturing race is harder to read
Ishisit [-\]: but that is mostly due to the time of day 
Akisame [2d?\]: how strong is w?
Mukti [3d\]: b n2 seesms lethal to me
PhamAnh [4d\]: n18 
Mukti [3d\]: n18*, sorry
Javaness [1d\]: white is a 4dan since two months
Akisame [2d?\]: ok thx
Ishisit [-\]: i rather say they lack tournaments to get their proper ranks
])
(;W[lb]
;B[kb]
;W[la]
;B[pa]
;W[ob]
;B[na]
;W[ma]C[Javaness [1d\]: british ranks are set by the rating list
]
;B[gc]C[macfadyen [-\]: This would be OK for White
])))
(;W[pc]
;B[ng]
;W[qc]C[Ishisit [-\]: actually i always thought j17 to be hamete for this cuttingsequence
]
;B[lf]C[macfadyen [-\]: This way Black is a bit thiunner on the right
])
(;W[lf]
;B[oe]
;W[ng]
;B[of]
;W[hc]
;B[ob]C[burtabel [4d\]: or White escapes while Black is allowed to capture M15?
Ishisit [-\]: yep my feel is m14 too
FlyingSnow [1d\]: white k10 there ok?
macfadyen [-\]: Notice that I am choosing to let W have extra forcing moves at h18 so as to suppress the r17 option
macfadyen [-\]: Now K10 would be a bit of an underplay, cos Black also has a moyo.
]
(;W[jj]
;B[kk]C[macfadyen [-\]: Now Black is bigger so White must invade
])
(;W[km]
;B[mo]
;W[nk]
;B[ol]
;W[nl]
;B[om]
;W[in]C[light3 [3k\]: w atari!
macfadyen [-\]: This feels about the right size so Black cant just seal off and win
macfadyen [-\]: OK the game progresses
])))
(;W[nd]
;B[me]C[macfadyen [-\]: The game is here
HarSig [?\]: Thanks simpkin. I'll have to keep up with the times. 
macfadyen [-\]: Big turning point. Does White Block and sacrifice 4 stones, or p14 and fight
zazie [-\]: fight, fight ! :)
aitkensam [-\]: i will be impressed if Alex finds P14
macfadyen [-\]: I think p14 is rather normal, the fancy line would be q13:
light3 [3k\]: what if b o14 after w q13
pasky [-\]: exactly my thoughts.. will w be happy with just establishing position outside?
macfadyen [-\]: Both players have to keep their stones alive, but the real issues are whether Black seals off the right side, and whether White keeps h16 as part of a large framework not a weak group
macfadyen [-\]: I guess some of Alex's time is being spent on the capturing race:
light3 [3k\]: can w invade r17 right now?
Ishisit [-\]: guo juan  say m16 bad nonono
macfadyen [-\]: A common feature with the last game, both players rushewd into a really hairy joseki at 20 seconds a move, and now that they are committed, Alex is spending an hour trying to wriggle out of it
pasky [-\]: m16? that seems pretty usual move
Javaness [1d\]: which colour do you prefer here?
macfadyen [-\]: When pros play, they spend an hour on move 10, then start a fight knowing where the end will be
pitimp [6k\]: I saw the lecture by guo juan.. it's only a nono if white has d17 instead of star
macfadyen [-\]: For example, If White now finds he wants q13 but o14 will be a good answer, then he should go back 10 moves and play q13 as kikashi before j16
Ishisit [-\]: ah two no for third line, 3 no for 4th line stones, ok  that figures
pasky [-\]: pitimp: what's the move instead of m16 in that case?
macfadyen [-\]: We have a move
pitimp [6k\]: hmm.. I will show you the link to the lecture
]
(;W[of]
(;B[mf]
;W[pg]
;B[qf]
;W[ng]C[GeRui [3d\]: w should have thought before
]
;B[oh]
;W[og]
;B[lh]
;W[qg]C[aitkensam [-\]: he will tihn again Gerui =)
]
;B[qc]
;W[nj]C[aitkensam [-\]: think*
Uberdude [3d\]: i just joined, but wasn't o18 a mistake
macfadyen [-\]: Plenty of scope for fun here
Uberdude [3d\]: as no n16 is serious as w can't 3-3
aitkensam [-\]: O18 simpler at L17
Uberdude [3d\]: simpler and better is it not?
macfadyen [-\]: But j17 h16 looks bad exchange for Black, so I like this line provided White can settle p13 group OK
aitkensam [-\]: its certainly good enough =)
])
(;B[pg]
;W[mf]
;B[lf]
;W[ke]
;B[mg]
;W[nf]
;B[gc]
;W[oh]C[macfadyen [-\]: It can also go quiet like this:
HarSig [?\]: Is this the first time that both the game itself and the controller's comments are seen at the same time? If so from now on, what a great stage. 
GeRui [3d\]: no
simpkin [6k\]: er, not at all, HarSig
macfadyen [-\]: Yes, works well. Best if u have 2 screens, so the real game is always up for reference
aitkensam [-\]: N15 what a surprise ^^
]))
(;W[pg]C[HarSig [?\]: Oops! 'this way of watching'
macfadyen [-\]: Playing this contact move first stops black responding there to p14
Zureiyaa [4d\]: q13 idea is common
]
(;B[of]
;W[nf]
;B[lf]
;W[og]
;B[qf]
;W[qg]
;B[qc]
;W[mg]C[Parr [4k\]: its a face....
macfadyen [-\]: If W can get away with this he's doing really well
])
(;B[og]
;W[of]
;B[nf]
;W[oe]
;B[pe]
;W[ng]C[HarSig [?\]: Matthew, having two screens is a bit of a clutter for these eyes. Having both running at the same time on the task bar is the way I've gone in the past. Perhaps that's a bit wasteful. I liket his way of watching, game and variations. 
]
;B[mf]
;W[oh])
(;B[nf]
;W[oe]
;B[of]
;W[pe]
;B[qe]
;W[qd]C[pasky [-\]: oh...
]
;B[qc]
;W[rd]
;B[rc]
;W[qf]
;B[re]
;W[mf]
;B[oh]
;W[rf]
;B[sd]
;W[lf]
;B[mh]
;W[hc]C[Djaian [5k\]: sorry my english not very good: framework = moyo?
]
;B[hb]C[pasky [-\]: yes
Djaian [5k\]: thx
macfadyen [-\]: This looks bad for White, maybe my q13 move doesnt work, but it was good style
]))
(;W[mf]
;B[lf]
;W[ke]
;B[nf]
;W[mg]
;B[oe]
;W[pb]
(;B[qc])
(;B[ob]
;W[oa]
;B[qc]
;W[qb]
;B[rc]
;W[rb]
;B[pc]
;W[hc]
;B[mb]
;W[ng]
;B[of]
;W[ib]
;B[jb]
;W[hb]
;B[ma]
;W[na]
;B[pa]C[macfadyen [-\]: I don't think W can save the stones here. The issue is whether h17 plus some really hunky ko threats is enough conpensation
Uberdude [3d\]: if m14 were neeted maybe ok but this seems good for b
macfadyen [-\]: Also notice White loses the r17 invasion in this line
]))))
(;W[me]
;B[hd]C[Javaness [1d\]: is there a difference with O18 in place?
]
;W[fc]C[macfadyen [-\]: Yes, o18 weakens Black's eyes at the top, but it makes Black n16 better
macfadyen [-\]: so w should n15 rather soon. The variation I have here leaves Black very shaky
])
(;W[hd]
;B[md]
;W[nd]
;B[me]
;W[mf]
;B[lf]
;W[ke]
;B[nf]
;W[mg]
;B[oe]
;W[hc]
;B[ob]
;W[ib]
;B[jb]C[Zureiyaa [4d\]: can white really do this?
]
;W[hb]
;B[mb]
;W[ma]
;B[la]C[aitkensam [-\]: a fight or a demolition ^^
]
;W[na]
;B[oa]
;W[ng]
;B[of]
;W[km]C[aitkensam [-\]: hehe L7 awesome
macfadyen [-\]: Black 'wins' but this is not obviously good for him
macfadyen [-\]: L7 is a guess, incidentally
Zureiyaa [4d\]: i would hate to play this game..
]))
(;W[jd]
;B[ld]
;W[le]
;B[md]
;W[nd]
;B[me]
;W[of]
;B[lf]
;W[pg]C[macfadyen [-\]: This leaves k16 floating but Black's right side may get wrecked
]))
(;W[nb]
;B[ld]
;W[le]
;B[md]
;W[nd]
;B[me]
;W[mf]
;B[kc]
;W[jd]
;B[lf]
;W[ke]
;B[nf]
;W[mg]
;B[jc]C[macfadyen [-\]: This is hard for White to control
]))
(;B[oc]
;W[kc]
;B[nb]
;W[mc]
;B[mb]
;W[lb]C[macfadyen [-\]: This leaves the fighting for later
]))
(;W[qf]
(;B[oe]
;W[qc]
;B[qd]
;W[pc]
(;B[md]
;W[od]
;B[pe]
;W[ne]
;B[nd]
;W[oc]
;B[mc]
;W[nf]
;B[rc]C[macfadyen [-\]: like this:
simpkin [6k\]: this is joseki?
macfadyen [-\]: I forget the details but this was the main idea
])
(;B[me]
;W[ld]
;B[fq]C[macfadyen [-\]: Question is f3 too good to allow, and if so does W want to play f3 first before starting the top right?
Javaness [1d\]: BGAadmin says you can talk on his board if you would like to :)
macfadyen [-\]: Thx Ian
aitkensam [-\]: He just wants more to keep him entertained during thinking times :p
Zureiyaa [4d\]: isn't h3 a common move too? for white i mean
simpkin [6k\]: well, he should join this game as well, then :)
GeRui [3d\]: i'd prefer macfadyen's comments here
Javaness [1d\]: why don't you tell him a joke aitkensam?
Javaness [1d\]: 2 Go players walk into a bar
macfadyen [-\]: I'll do comments here and only talk to the actual game to ask for extra info
Azlaz [?\]: I love the fact that we can see various variations here and the real game in BGAdmins game
simpkin [6k\]: super, thank you, matthew
]))
(;B[qc]
;W[oe]
;B[pe]
;W[pf]
;B[of]
;W[od]C[macfadyen [-\]: Also has happened in pro play. like this:
macfadyen [-\]: Black plays to be just not quite dead in the corner. Lots of reading required
])))
