(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[7.50]TM[10800]OT[10/600 Canadian]
GN[British Championship 2016 Title match - game 1]PW[Junnan Jiang]PB[Charles Hibbert]WR[5d]BR[4d]DT[2016-08-20]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Morning all
toad [9k\]: hi
weiqidevil [-\]: Good Morning!
RubberDuck [?\]: This is a clone of the actual game record, I am Matthew Macfadyen, former British Champion, and I will be here to chat about the game through today
RubberDuck [?\]: The Challengers League (previous round) ended with both these players on 6/7. 
RubberDuck [?\]: Charles lost to Alistair wall, but won their game together.
RubberDuck [?\]: According to Andrew Symonds who was watching, that game was almost over and was good for Junnan but he tried to be clever in saving a group with extra efficiency
RubberDuck [?\]: Neither player has ever had a game with 3 hours each time limits
]
;B[pd]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Both of them are young enough to have the physical stamina to think hard for 7 hours, 
]
;W[dp]
;B[qp]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Here we go. Normal opening so far
]
;W[dc]
;B[fq]C[KlaasVaak [4k\]: hi rubberduckman
RubberDuck [?\]: White most commonly plays c6 here, for a patient opening.
RubberDuck [?\]: If he wants to mess about, O4 is the sort of thing I used to play
]
;W[iq]C[RubberDuck [?\]: OK, now the game really starts. Charles would be well advised to spend 10 minutes at least here, 
RubberDuck [?\]: Black has moves at F5, c3, c6. all playable.
Uberdude [3d\]: unusual pincer, h3 more common
midorisuke [5d\]: how about p3?
Uberdude [3d\]: p3 for black too
RubberDuck [?\]: The point is to get the scenery into focus for some distance towards the horizon
Uberdude [3d\]: but i don't think that's charle's style
]
;B[cq]
;W[dq]
;B[cp]
;W[do]
;B[dr]
;W[er]
;B[cr]
;W[eq]
;B[cn]
;W[op]C[Uberdude [3d\]: i prefer low approach here
Syxok [-\]: isnt c3 bad when r4 is facing the thickness?
RubberDuck [?\]: P4 is a busy idea. White is trying for a large postion on the lower side
Fortune [?\]: 3 hours on the clock?
RubberDuck [?\]: Not so bad Syxok, the problem for white is he gets only one territory, and it isnt territory until he has played F4 to suppress F2
RubberDuck [?\]: So Black can patiently play Q6
Syxok [-\]: k thanks
RubberDuck [?\]: Part of why I wanted charles to think for 10 minutes before c3 was that all this development is pretty obvious, and he could have spent a bit of time deciding how he felt about keeping the deep invasion for very late ( I mean invading K3 or L3)
]
;B[oq]
;W[nq]
;B[pq]
;W[mp]
;B[qn]C[Uberdude [3d\]: i was pondering o5 peep for black
Uberdude [3d\]: because i tihnkk black will more likely do f2 not m3 invasion
Uberdude [3d\]: white has ladder though so could p5 perhaps
RubberDuck [?\]: Black P3 is slightly cheeky. It appears to put J3 on a good point, but Black may have a theory as to gow to invade.
]
(;W[nc]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Heres the game
Shenron [1d\]: D15 seemed natural 
RubberDuck [?\]: The point of that sequence is, the lower side is not yet territory
RubberDuck [?\]: Now suppose White protects:
]
(;B[pf]C[RubberDuck [?\]: So White cant just claim the lower side plus the komi and win
RubberDuck [?\]: He may try to make a 'diversionary moyo' at the top. 
Shenron [1d\]: K16?
RubberDuck [?\]: This strategy is, instead of protecting the bottom, to make a second large loose position.
RubberDuck [?\]: Then if black invades both there will be a splitting attak, and if not one of them becomes territory
Shenron [1d\]: What would alphago do? :)
]
;W[ce]C[RubberDuck [?\]: I cant predict Alphagos moves, thats why im weakerthan Lee sedol
Vengence [-\]: Srry, but who are the plyrs?
RubberDuck [?\]: Now Black can choose to reduce around K16 or to strengthen around Q10
Shenron [1d\]: Top seems urgent
Nyanjilla [-\]: white is Junnan Jiang, black is Charles Hibbert
Vengence [-\]: Thx
]
;B[lc]C[Shenron [1d\]: One space further better?
]
;W[qc]
;B[pc]
;W[pb]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Blacks right side needs 3 moves to become territory, say Q18, Q11 and O7.
RubberDuck [?\]: Charles chose M17 to encourage White to use up some of his options on the right.
RubberDuck [?\]: Here is one way
]
(;B[qd]
;W[rb]
;B[rc]
;W[qb]
;B[nd]C[Shenron [1d\]: M17 makes sense if you plan to cover
]
;W[oc]C[EdhelDil [4k\]: o7?
EdhelDil [4k\]: or is n16 needed?
Uberdude [3d\]: i don't like black gote twice here
]
;B[io]C[RubberDuck [?\]: O7 is nice shape for Black, makes whites deep invasions around r9 feel dangerous,
RubberDuck [?\]: J5 feels a bit odd, as if Black is trying to surround the entitre centre
RubberDuck [?\]: White has to do something to stop K3
Hanarou [1k\]: Pokemon go back on saturday for certain for now for 
]
(;W[ip]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Also possible was giving up the lower side:
Nyanjilla [-\]: Hanarou... your copy'n'paste got mangled... be more careful
Shenron [1d\]: J4 protect m3 weakness?
RubberDuck [?\]: Normally, to invade a territory that wont make 30 points at maximum is not so urgent. Having started with J5 Black should continue, probably H5 K5 or L5
]
;B[ko]C[r0n1n [2d\]: maybe he's trying to get some center thickness in the center in sente to come back around o6 later?
RubberDuck [?\]: Hes trying to connect J5 up to R6 to make a huge area
r0n1n [2d\]: does this plan sound dubious to you?
RubberDuck [?\]: Of course White will invade, but then Black can hope to get moves like N16 in as part of his attack
YoungPro [6d\]: who comment this game
RubberDuck [?\]: Here white L3 is normal but passive, M4 looks best to me
Shenron [1d\]: W think about wedge?
RubberDuck [?\]: The wedge is good shape, but...
]
(;W[mm]C[RubberDuck [?\]: White runs out of patience
r0n1n [2d\]: isn't that a little too early?
Shenron [1d\]: W just dont want to follow b plans
RubberDuck [?\]: Whites lower side wont make 20 points whatever, So he decides to fight
RubberDuck [?\]: This can be good for Black if he keeps an attack going on the N4 stones
maciek [2d\]: black should play h or g5 i think
polubola: L3 after k2 hane?
YoungPro [6d\]: just pass is better than the game result
YoungPro [6d\]: start with f2 first instead of j5 and then probably something like m3 is even greater than j5
]
(;B[mo]
;W[no]
;B[mn]
;W[nn]
;B[nm]C[RubberDuck [?\]: If Black started with F2, then he can expect a small live group on the side
]
;W[lp]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Charles decided that the lower side was small
maciek [2d\]: m3 seems to be a bit too defensive, why not n8 or m7
Shenron [1d\]: B want to play p7 so bad
RubberDuck [?\]: White was afraid that L3 would force him to live small with the P4 group
polubola: L7 now or nobi o7 stone?
maciek [2d\]: ya maybe m4 was a good choice... so B now l7 or o8
RubberDuck [?\]: If Black plays L7 now, White might sacrifice N7 to enter the right side. One way is N8 first to stop this:
]
(;B[nl]C[maciek [2d\]: the problem for black is n16 aji :)
Shenron [1d\]: W can n8?
RubberDuck [?\]: Black can think of N16 and J17 as miai, as long as he gets one of them M17 is OK.Obviously this affects the size of Blacks centre, but J17 is a lot of points so White wont hurry
maciek [2d\]: n8 let black plays n9, just m7 is correct here
RubberDuck [?\]: This game is running very fast for a 3 hour time limit. 
polubola: who decided the 3h per side and did he get punished for it?
]
;W[lm]C[Shenron [1d\]: Amateur not used to so much time
]
;B[kn]
;W[km]C[RubberDuck [?\]: British Championship finals have been 3 hours since 1975
]
;B[jm]C[polubola: tradition is no excuse ;-)
Uberdude [3d\]: i lost one of these games on time =)
Syxok [-\]: how come you arent taking part this time uberdude
polubola: did you go for a walk in between and got stuck in the coffee bar for too long?
Uberdude [3d\]: lost too much
RubberDuck [?\]: K7 was extremely hasty. He could easily spend 10 minutes checking the moves around F2, so as to decide whether K3 or L4 might be good focing moves
]
;W[jl]C[Uberdude [3d\]: i think i may have recorded the games if you're interested
]
(;B[jp]C[maciek [2d\]: wow
maciek [2d\]: j7 is too good for white now
polubola: k3 l4 l3 is my prediction
RubberDuck [?\]: Black wants to play J8
polubola: the problem with my sequence is some kind of damezumari he needs to fix else n5 dies
maciek [2d\]: no matter waht is after j7 k3  i couldnt stop myself from playing j7 right now
RubberDuck [?\]: White surrounds more territory now with L2, not K3. Very likely M2 will work later for Black
RubberDuck [?\]: But there is also a problem at g2
polubola: atari everything 3 times
RubberDuck [?\]: The ataris dont help much, White has to look after M7.
polubola: i meant at the end of your variation and it was only 2 times but it looked harder for b than w even though it was a complete mess
RubberDuck [?\]: K4 is looking quite effective. I thought K3 was the proper shape. Now White is wishing he had played K8 at M9
RubberDuck [?\]: Lets do some rough counting, assuming nothingdies in this fight
RubberDuck [?\]: White lower side maybe 15
RubberDuck [?\]: White upper left 15
RubberDuck [?\]: White upper right 15
RubberDuck [?\]: Centre group 5
RubberDuck [?\]: Komi 7.5
RubberDuck [?\]: Total 55+
RubberDuck [?\]: Black lower left 12
RubberDuck [?\]: Centre 5
RubberDuck [?\]: So Black needs 40+ on the right side
RubberDuck [?\]: If Black played P6 and P11 that would be about 55
FudgeBlue [?\]: Upper right 15 looks optimistic
RubberDuck [?\]: So, If both live comfortably in the centre, and Black gets a forcing move around O10 leaning on White, then White needs sente to come in around P7
RubberDuck [?\]: White might be looking at playing P7 now, immediately, so the M4 group can make eyes on the right side if it is cut off
RubberDuck [?\]: But Black K2 would threaten J2 so this is too dangerous
RubberDuck [?\]: So, for this move White has only K3, L3 and L2
RubberDuck [?\]: Upper right 15 estimate assumes S16 will be effectively Whites sente, also allows some for N16 getting J17 reply by Black
toad [9k\]: which would you play out of K3 L3 L2?
RubberDuck [?\]: Notice that if Black gets O10 then he can answer P7 at q7. So that takes the right side in one with a move attacking M7
FudgeBlue [?\]: Can white play J7 before defending at the bottom?
RubberDuck [?\]: No hurry for j7 atari, Black wants to play j8 not j7, so you can atari later.
FudgeBlue [?\]: thx
RubberDuck [?\]: If Black plays j7 after Whites reply then k4 looks really odd
RubberDuck [?\]: for example:
RubberDuck [?\]: This sort of squeezing option will probably be messed up by the vulgar push at K4
]
(;W[im]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Is White planning to ignore K4 and fight?
]
;B[jn]C[RubberDuck [?\]: The players are both showing inexperience with long time limits.
RubberDuck [?\]: For Whiteto think after J7 is really odd. He must have expected K6 and could not have played J7 intelligently without planning the next move.
RubberDuck [?\]: The art of using a lot of time to play go well involves thinking in whole sequences, and playing them as sequences.
RubberDuck [?\]: Lets look at h8
]
(;W[kp]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Clever, this stops J8 for the moment
RubberDuck [?\]: I wonder how he plans to answer H5
RubberDuck [?\]: Not much choice about black  H5 here
]
(;B[il]C[RubberDuck [?\]: O gosh, a big exchange, Black is sacrificing N6
]
(;W[lo]C[Uberdude [3d\]: bizarre but seems not so easy for b
]
;B[jk]
;W[kl]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Expect M6, and then Charles' preferred move to seal the right side
]
;B[hm]
;W[ik]
;B[hl]C[RubberDuck [?\]: This result feels dubious for Black. His problem is that M6 will make white absolutely strong, both with M4 and M7 groups, so the righ side invasion will be completely free 
RubberDuck [?\]: However, black g2 now looks quite nasty.
RubberDuck [?\]: lets look
]
(;W[ij]C[RubberDuck [?\]: White didnt capture. Looks crazy
RubberDuck [?\]: Now Black M6 threatens K3 and L9
]
(;B[ln]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Hes going for it
]
;W[kj]
;B[jq]
;W[jr]C[RubberDuck [?\]: White has an eye in the centre, but there are sente moves like N8, Whites entire lower side looks flaky, and one eye is only one eye
]
;B[dn]C[RubberDuck [?\]: This move gives White time to patch up, but it is very solid.
RubberDuck [?\]: IMO Charles is planning to settle everything on the left centre, then play N8 and e.g.O11 to claim the right side
]
;W[en]
;B[em]
;W[fm]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Both sides seem to think H7 is a weak group
RubberDuck [?\]: Now 4 minutes to lunch. A good time to slow right down and not commit to anything rash
]
;B[fn]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Seems likely White will wait and play E5 as the sealed move
RubberDuck [?\]: Play will resume in one hour, at 14.00 local time.
RubberDuck [?\]: Im going for a bite to eat too, see you in an hour
Uberdude [3d\]: an interesting move suggestion from my wife: white j6 for move 56
polubola: wow i went away a bit to see ten´s lecture and the mess got even messier
Uberdude [3d\]: i think charlie would like it, those kind of counterintuitive moves he likes to play
polubola: uberdude how strong is your wife
polubola: (at go)
Uberdude [3d\]: 2d
Uberdude [3d\]: plus her name is Sai
Uberdude [3d\]: for bonus strength
polubola: the sai that played as 3d 1 year ago at the egc and crushed all 6d she played?
polubola: this position looks so ugly for both
Uberdude [3d\]: different sai
Uberdude [3d\]: that is sai sun 5d from china
Uberdude [3d\]: she won all her games at us go congres this year because of entering at 5d
RubberDuck [?\]: Hi All. Lunch has been consumed (most of it, the catering is good here)
RubberDuck [?\]: Restarting in a coupe of minutes
Uberdude [3d\]: (well, and playing well, but chinese or european 5d is a lot stronger than us 5d
Uberdude [3d\]: matthew, could you look at white j6 for move 56?
]
;W[eo]C[RubberDuck [?\]: OK theyve restarted, White made the obvious connection
RubberDuck [?\]: Looks like Black has to play E8
RubberDuck [?\]: But he should spend 10 minutes digesting his lunch first
RubberDuck [?\]: Heres a line to look at:
]
(;B[el]C[RubberDuck [?\]: so if white cant fight:
]
(;W[gn]
;B[fl]
;W[fo]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Black is not interested in making whoopee
RubberDuck [?\]: Here is a case where more reading would have helped. Charles has used up the g2 aji to connect his stones out very thoroughly. Now if black L2, then white might choose to sacrifice 4 stones to keep good eyeshape. 
RubberDuck [?\]: like this
bert [?\]: l3 m2 l2 l1 j2 k1 h4 h3 h2 g3 g4 
RubberDuck [?\]: I think Whites game would have been easier if he took off 2 stones in the centre
bert [?\]: in effect i think w has to let go of 4 m4 stones
RubberDuck [?\]: Blacks group can still be cut off, but not yet very usefully:
]
(;B[qj]C[RubberDuck [?\]: White needs some extra stones around to be able to do this
RubberDuck [?\]: Black is being extremely modest here. This makes territory on the side, but in gote
]
;W[jd]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Soon White will have a big area of influence and black has to invade. that cut on the left side will be part of Blacks worries
]
;B[db]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Nice idea. Settle something in Whites area before it gets too big
]
;W[ec]
;B[cc]C[RubberDuck [?\]: White has decided that there will be a fight in the centre.
]
;W[cd]C[bert [?\]: tenuki now
]
;B[eb]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Now Black has established the right to live fast in the corner. 
RubberDuck [?\]: But he doesnt use it.
]
;W[fc]
;B[bc]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Charles doesnt ant to be killed on a big scale at N16. He has manages a bigger corner group than usual.
]
;W[gl]C[RubberDuck [?\]: F18 is now not sente for White
RubberDuck [?\]: Hes going for the juggler
RubberDuck [?\]: One issue here is whether either side has time to play H6
]
(;B[gk]
;W[gm]
;B[hk]
;W[hn]
;B[in]
;W[fk]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Junnan was keen to get the forcing move in, but he now has to worry about black h5
]
;B[fj]
;W[dm]
;B[cm]
;W[ek]
;B[dl]
;W[ej]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Now J11 is classy
Uberdude [3d\]: so f8 a mistake because this cut still existed?
]
;B[ho]C[RubberDuck [?\]: IMO black had far better than D6 at the bottom. I think Black was fine up to C17, but then safer to play D11 not live yet in the corner
RubberDuck [?\]: Now  white probably has to h2, and hope his whole lower side has a spare eye around p5
RubberDuck [?\]: lets look at the shape in the centre:
RubberDuck [?\]: White would like to make an eye
]
(;W[gq]
(;B[go]C[RubberDuck [?\]: White had better play F11 and go for the centre
]
;W[fn]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Black should come out in the centre next
Hexan [1k?\]: e11?
Hexan [1k?\]: true
Hexan [1k?\]: thx
RubberDuck [?\]: G11 is the shape, J11 is the classy addon to that
RubberDuck [?\]: and J2 is the lurking killer move
]
(;B[jj]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Ah, he is planning E11
Uberdude [3d\]: i had a tendency to play fancy moves like this in my games just to impress the observers
Uberdude [3d\]: a rather dangerous habit
Uberdude [3d\]: i started winning more when i was boring
RubberDuck [?\]: K10 definitely scores the Brian johnson moment so far
RubberDuck [?\]: Last year that was a no brainer - Uberdudes amazing empty triangle
Uberdude [3d\]: rock and roll?
Hexan [1k?\]: so if black is out and the center will fall apart the question is what is left for white to compensate
RubberDuck [?\]: If Black can catch the E9 stones then it is hard to see how he would lose
Uberdude [3d\]: my fear is this is costly that junnan just answer and could win, were it not for the problem he created on lower side with g3
Hexan [1k?\]: so white will need a very smart approach here :)
RubberDuck [?\]: White gave up a lot of points in the upper left, so he needs something here
Hexan [1k?\]: anything better than k11 here?
aitkensam [-\]: k11 seems a must to me
RubberDuck [?\]: Nothing better. If J11 then Black has L9 which escapes in sente
RubberDuck [?\]: So we expect this
aitkensam [-\]: w still has some potential for mess at the top if he plays f18
]
(;W[ji]
;B[ei]
;W[fi]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Hi sam, yes, true, but if Black knows about J2 then White will have no time and Black F18 would be game over
Uberdude [3d\]: f18 then ko inside?
RubberDuck [?\]: No Ko
RubberDuck [?\]: Like this?
aitkensam [-\]: but like you say, bottom needs sorting first somehow...
RubberDuck [?\]: Black has another way here
]
(;B[gj]
;W[di]
;B[eh]
;W[dj]
;B[dh]
;W[ch]
;B[cg]
;W[bi]C[RubberDuck [?\]: The game has continued
]
;B[bh]C[RubberDuck [?\]: White connection at D10 was better than the C10 I showed, now not so easy to kill. But Black can G12 and aim at j2
RubberDuck [?\]: Or just J2
Hexan [1k?\]: time to resign
RubberDuck [?\]: Black may be tempted to try to kill all
]
;W[ci]C[aitkensam [-\]: kill all seems tough, but j2 is lurking... it seems w would only be able to h2, but then what...
Morticia [4k\]: so at least I have something in common with Black......
aitkensam [-\]: m2 exchange a couple of moves then f12?
RubberDuck [?\]: Black G12 clearly threatens to play B14, then J2 and try to kill M4 group, then if that fails play F18. Black is good
RubberDuck [?\]: lets look at the max line:
Hexan [1k?\]: white still seeking to attack blacks center group
]
(;B[gh]
;W[dg]
;B[eg]
;W[hi]
;B[gi]
;W[df]
;B[ir]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Black played sensibly. 
aitkensam [-\]: feels odd to see a bga final played at such pace :)
RubberDuck [?\]: Bring back nick Krempel
Morticia [4k\]: neither player has experience with long time limits, apparently
Uberdude [3d\]: charlie found 1 hour games long just 2 years ago
aitkensam [-\]: h2 l2 j1 l3 q10 pray
RubberDuck [?\]: No, I think neither has had anything as long as the 105 minute challengers league games before this tournament
Morticia [4k\]: you need to train potential champions about time limits
Morticia [4k\]: it's no fun if the game is over too quick
fool [1d\]: why not l3?
RubberDuck [?\]: If L3 then black H3 kills 14 stones to the left
Closemiss [3d\]: if b center lives (it does?) then it will be hard to make territory out of attacking m17 as well
fool [1d\]: oh f4 is sente yes
RubberDuck [?\]: Whites best chances seem to involve killing M17 on a big scale
Closemiss [3d\]: if b shares by taking some extra points around the o12 area, it still seems hard for w
Closemiss [3d\]: does w need something extreme like q11?
fool [1d\]: hm id still go with l3
Closemiss [3d\]: h3 seems painful if w would play l3
RubberDuck [?\]: look att this,
]
(;W[hr]
;B[kr]
;W[is]
;B[kq]C[aitkensam [-\]: painful choice, but only choice
RubberDuck [?\]: Now it looks as if the M4 group is dead
Uberdude [3d\]: something at p7 no?
RubberDuck [?\]: Mayb junnan has found a way to live somewhere, say syarting at R9
Closemiss [3d\]: w may wriggle, but at what cost?
RubberDuck [?\]: M17 cant connect out cleanly
Uberdude [3d\]: so black may m15
RubberDuck [?\]: Stylish way is to play K17 first, then some geta may come good depending how white answers
eyeless [1k\]: some net?
Closemiss [3d\]: How are the scores if b just plays one more move to kill o6 with an extra move?
RubberDuck [?\]: White can try preparing by playing eg Q10. Charles will be keen to keep M4 cleanly dead, and may give up a little in the centre
RubberDuck [?\]: Territory now: 
]
(;W[om]C[aitkensam [-\]: hoho
RubberDuck [?\]: White 
]
;B[ol]C[RubberDuck [?\]: This sems reckless
Closemiss [3d\]: w refutes the center terr. option
]
;W[po]C[RubberDuck [?\]: exactly. If he cant live here the game is over
RubberDuck [?\]: Black N2 stops most things
Closemiss [3d\]: yes
Closemiss [3d\]: thx
Closemiss [3d\]: s7 too passive?
RubberDuck [?\]: S7 then white Q4 is awkward
RubberDuck [?\]: P6 now also seems clean
]
;B[qo]C[Closemiss [3d\]: still looks very hard for w
aitkensam [-\]: w n2?
RubberDuck [?\]: White may try N2 aiming at a ko along the edge
aitkensam [-\]: that's much better than he had before
aitkensam [-\]: even if still not great
Closemiss [3d\]: yeah, I liked b n2 better
Closemiss [3d\]: *  more
RubberDuck [?\]: Now white N2 gets a ko of sorts
]
(;W[mr]C[aitkensam [-\]: so the most exciting thing that could happen in this game is for k6 group to die :)
RubberDuck [?\]: Black has decent ko threats at B13
Closemiss [3d\]: ko means two b moves in the center? can w actually afford that?
RubberDuck [?\]: If Blacks two moves are F18, G17 then white still loses
aitkensam [-\]: i really don't get why w didn't play m6 a lot earlier
RubberDuck [?\]: Yes, absolutely. That was a chance for real thickness
Closemiss [3d\]: that looks risky for the center group to me. I would prefer j13 and l15 or so
Uberdude [3d\]: you mean instead of extend j10 sam?
aitkensam [-\]: yes uber
Uberdude [3d\]: yeah as b didn't even have ladder
aitkensam [-\]: mm
Uberdude [3d\]: wasn't like he could finish outside nicely
aitkensam [-\]: even if he did i think i would still take...
aitkensam [-\]: well i am glad w found a way to not be totally dead
RubberDuck [?\]: I think the problem was earlier. White J4 tried to hang on to the side as well as get to the centre first, better just play aroundO7.
aitkensam [-\]: get to see more of b's fighting skills :)
Closemiss [3d\]: b16 sente / threat?
Uberdude [3d\]: i wondered about black d14 before all this fighting to make ladders
aitkensam [-\]: i guess w didnt watch alpha go, if he had have then he would have exchanged q5 earlier then he wouldn't play o7
RubberDuck [?\]: Here Black gets a better ko by playing M3, then the K3 stones are not in atariif white wins the ko
]
(;B[on]C[Uberdude [3d\]: black big group isn't alive yet
]
;W[or]C[Uberdude [3d\]: gives some hope 
aitkensam [-\]: that's my dream too uber
aitkensam [-\]: it's good to dream :)
Uberdude [3d\]: that's the kind of group i died with against both junnan and charlie at challengers
aitkensam [-\]: big groups never die, usually
Uberdude [3d\]: mine no in byo yomi
Uberdude [3d\]: mine do
aitkensam [-\]: hehe
Closemiss [3d\]: still ko, but now b has p8 safe?
aitkensam [-\]: i am not sure about p6 either maybe now w can choose a different ko
Closemiss [3d\]: m3 for ko?
]
;B[lq]C[aitkensam [-\]: how about w f18 now
Closemiss [3d\]: b is now so strong, and still has a ko
aitkensam [-\]: make p16 and n16 area into real threats
RubberDuck [?\]: Now maybe white lives with r2 but Black gets to capture 4 stones after N3 steals the O2 eye
Closemiss [3d\]: certain life for center would end b's last worries
aitkensam [-\]: matthew, do you think p6 was ok?
Syxok [-\]: w must play l1?
RubberDuck [?\]: Yes I do, it is very good at being thick towards the R11 territory, and the group gets much the same ko
Closemiss [3d\]: m1/q2 certain eyes, but as RD said, loss of n4
RubberDuck [?\]: How about Black using J12 as a ko threat, then carrying it out at L12. This attacks whites centre a bit, and leaves a reserve eye at J11
Closemiss [3d\]: I would really like that for b
Syxok [-\]: i think m1 is ko
Closemiss [3d\]: indeed
RubberDuck [?\]: Another idea is to use F18 as the ko threat then continue at E15. This makes threats around B14
Closemiss [3d\]: anyone who prefers w? ^-^
]
;W[ks]
;B[ls]
;W[lr]
;B[js]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Ok Ko time
aitkensam [-\]: i prefer w to how he looked earlier, does that count? :)
]
;W[qr]C[Closemiss [3d\]: Yep, one for aitkensam
aitkensam [-\]: interesting...
Syxok [-\]: how old is charles? in EGD his first games starting from 2015
]
;B[pr]C[Uberdude [3d\]: about 28
]
;W[ks]
;B[fr]C[Uberdude [3d\]: same year as andrew kay, 2 below me at cambridge
Syxok [-\]: oh,so he just never played in tourneys?
Uberdude [3d\]: might ave played our club one
]
;W[fp]C[Uberdude [3d\]: but not rated
Closemiss [3d\]: soon taking j1 will be sente
]
;B[js]C[aitkensam [-\]: so hard for w...
Uberdude [3d\]: he was something like 8k when he finished uni
Uberdude [3d\]: and then got to dan playing on kgs after
Closemiss [3d\]: corner does not live without n3 being sente, does it?
aitkensam [-\]: all the cool kids get to dan on kgs
Kauz [6k?\]: Which means I can finally become strong after finishing university? Awesome!
RubberDuck [?\]: Now black has created a follow up ko on the left if he should win the fight
Morticia [4k\]: no promises.....
RubberDuck [?\]: The B13 ko threats are for emergency
]
;W[qq]
;B[pp]
;W[ks]
;B[es]
;W[gp]
;B[js]C[Closemiss [3d\]: at least now c5 has a shot
]
;W[pm]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Tempting to play P1 here
Closemiss [3d\]: q6 feels so nice for b
Kauz [6k?\]: Why did white not play Q1 instead of Q7?
RubberDuck [?\]: should answer
RubberDuck [?\]: Gets one extra ko threat
]
(;B[pn]
;W[ks]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Black might also try to kill on the left
]
;B[lk]
;W[kk]
;B[js]
;W[co]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Now there is less to do after black j12, so that option has gone
RubberDuck [?\]: This is clever. His next threat at B4 either makes g2 live cleanly or creates aji so B13 might not work
Syxok [-\]: i cant see how w lives if black connects b13 to his corner
]
;B[bo]
;W[ks]
;B[oo]C[Syxok [-\]: w moves around c9/b9 arent giving him enough eyespace
RubberDuck [?\]: Black has the game counted it would seem
Closemiss [3d\]: well, my question is answered. I thought you would consider p5 too slow
]
;W[ms]
;B[np]C[Closemiss [3d\]: nothing in the center for w anymore
aitkensam [-\]: nice yose test, count n3's value
RubberDuck [?\]: White will have to play F18 and hope it is sente
]
;W[od]C[Closemiss [3d\]: n3/p1 close to miai
]
;B[nf]C[aitkensam [-\]: n3 is bigger
RubberDuck [?\]: Black F18 would be clearer
aitkensam [-\]: nobody likes f18 :(
]
;W[me]C[Closemiss [3d\]: I do!
RubberDuck [?\]: Another chance to F18
aitkensam [-\]: yay
]
;B[hc]C[Uberdude [3d\]: such a charlie move
RubberDuck [?\]: Black N11 is big, and creeps up on the L8 group
RubberDuck [?\]: Seems Charles doesnt think F18 is sente against the corner
Closemiss [3d\]: b16 not sente?
RubberDuck [?\]: Yes B16 is sente, but White B15 and it doesnt help
]
;W[ic]C[Closemiss [3d\]: ok
Uberdude [3d\]: b16 can also make damezumari inside
Uberdude [3d\]: and b doesn't mind a nswer b16 so much as then f18 white gote
]
;B[mf]C[RubberDuck [?\]: N3 is worth about 25 points
]
;W[oe]
;B[of]
;W[qi]C[Closemiss [3d\]: looks to me that if b gets time for n3, game is over
aitkensam [-\]: woooow
RubberDuck [?\]: No more Mr nice guy
RubberDuck [?\]: If Black keeps calm and plays R13 this stone should die
aitkensam [-\]: yeah r13 looks nice
aitkensam [-\]: even if it lives it might not be good
Closemiss [3d\]: I'm pleased to hear that, I liked it as wll
Closemiss [3d\]: * well
RubberDuck [?\]: Yes, Black N11 might kill the centre group
]
;B[qg]
;W[pj]
;B[qk]C[Closemiss [3d\]: I suppose the lack of f18 makes l17 too ambitious for b
]
;W[ni]C[RubberDuck [?\]: L17 too ambitios, yes, but Black can escape to the centre with L16
aitkensam [-\]: b doesnt need much, just f18 seems easy win
]
;B[mi]
;W[mh]
;B[li]
;W[lh]
;B[nh]C[RubberDuck [?\]: I was expecting N12 at N10
Closemiss [3d\]: ...
]
;W[lf]C[RubberDuck [?\]: now L12 and the attack on M7 is on
Closemiss [3d\]: w really asks for l12
]
;B[mq]C[Closemiss [3d\]: lol
RubberDuck [?\]: HES GOING FOR THE MONEY
aitkensam [-\]: om nom nom
RubberDuck [?\]: The right side is now over 70 points
]
;W[fb]C[Closemiss [3d\]: win some, lose some
aitkensam [-\]: a16 possible?
]
;B[le]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Yes A18 is ok but it doesnt aim to escape  b13
Closemiss [3d\]: how can b hope to win without a kill?
RubberDuck [?\]: You mean white?
Closemiss [3d\]: yes, sorry
]
;W[mj]
;B[lj]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Black is going to capture one of N15, M14. 
Closemiss [3d\]: w needs to kill p14. Seems a little hard...
]
;W[mk]
;B[nj]C[RubberDuck [?\]: When White declined the offer to capture N6 and N5, I said his centre stones only had one eye. 
RubberDuck [?\]: Now they are struggling to find a second one neatly
]
;W[nk]C[RubberDuck [?\]: O9 is not a move. Play N8
]
;B[ml]C[Closemiss [3d\]: it's getting a bit weird now
]
;W[oj]
;B[ok]C[Hexan [1k?\]: last try for honor
]
;W[oh]
;B[ng]C[Closemiss [3d\]: I'm inclined to say: Please, not in front of the children...
]
;W[rg]
;B[rf]
;W[rh]C[Closemiss [3d\]: l12?
]
;B[pi]C[Closemiss [3d\]: boring!
]
;W[re]C[RubberDuck [?\]: s16
]
;B[rd]
;W[sf]
;B[qf]C[Closemiss [3d\]: w trying to kill his own corner
RubberDuck [?\]: Charles is playing with impressive calmness
bensenseii [-\]: Well doesn't seem like there'd be a reason not to be calm for b
Closemiss [3d\]: it's a big game
]
;W[ph]
;B[qh]C[bensenseii [-\]: Ok
]
;W[ri]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Nothing more nervymaking than an opponent playing on when you cant see what his plan is
Closemiss [3d\]: I would not spend a cigar on this plan.
Syxok [-\]: o10 next and then l12?
bensenseii [-\]: Oh that's the final game
]
;B[ne]C[aitkensam [-\]: o15 is the cooler option
]
;W[ke]C[el [2d\]: I think W is in trouble
aitkensam [-\]: b says i know what's going on thx, gg
bensenseii [-\]: Yeah
bensenseii [-\]: Doesn't really seem like w is going to be able to do much
aitkensam [-\]: if not final, i guess w would already resign
Closemiss [3d\]: difficult choice, n17 is fun, but m16 as well
]
;B[md]C[aitkensam [-\]: option 3 it is :p
]
;W[kf]C[aitkensam [-\]: seems like resign time
]
;B[qe]C[Closemiss [3d\]: that is not a fun one
Closemiss [3d\]: it does not look as if w got a big center to me
bensenseii [-\]: I don't get r15
bensenseii [-\]: Might as well pass yknow
aitkensam [-\]: r15 just playing safe
RubberDuck [?\]: Yes. A semeai in which one side has 2 eyes is a fight over nothing
Closemiss [3d\]: it means: Please resign
aitkensam [-\]: mm
bensenseii [-\]: So he might as well pass :p
aitkensam [-\]: some might consider pass a bit rude :)
bensenseii [-\]: Honestly though, if w isn't willing to resign, b should just go for the points
Closemiss [3d\]: let's go for the double ko in the ul corner
aitkensam [-\]: n18 is eyes for b
RubberDuck [?\]: why not L12 and tryto kill M7
aitkensam [-\]: oh he res'd
RubberDuck [?\]: Makes loads of good ko threats
])
(;B[os]
;W[ns]
;B[ps]
;W[pn]
;B[mq]
;W[np]
;B[nr]C[RubberDuck [?\]: But if white lives, there is aji
Closemiss [3d\]: double ko?
]))
(;B[lq]
;W[or]
;B[pr]
;W[ks]
;B[ls]
;W[lr]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Black has much better yose if white wins the ko
aitkensam [-\]: if w wins the ko, does b center group owe a move?
aitkensam [-\]: ie. does h13 kill
aitkensam [-\]: if so b can only play local threats
RubberDuck [?\]: Clearly not if blacks ko threat was B13
Morticia [4k\]: "RubberDuck [?\]: Black has much better yose if white wins the ko"   isn't that paradoxical?
Closemiss [3d\]: if b takes all ko's and lives, and w has to come back and live at e2, that seems bad, when b has sente
RubberDuck [?\]: So where are whites ko threats?
Closemiss [3d\]: c5
aitkensam [-\]: c5 is a dangerous threat to play
aitkensam [-\]: i think two moves elsewhere is all w could get
RubberDuck [?\]: Mortica no. The point is you count the game where black wins the ko and add whites ko threat, and then vice versa
Morticia [4k\]: ok
Closemiss [3d\]: I think w is bolted anyway
RubberDuck [?\]: Here black is considering playing  quiet ko threat at F18, and then win the endgame after white lives. Much easier to win the endgame if the life is a grovel along the edge not a 4 stone capture
]))
(;W[mr]
;B[ls]
;W[lq]
;B[on]
;W[or]
;B[pr]
;W[ns]
;B[ps]
;W[ms]
;B[os]
;W[ks]
;B[js]
;W[pn]
;B[ir]
;W[pm]C[aitkensam [-\]: if o1 plays n1 directly then w one more threat
RubberDuck [?\]: Black cant kill on the left, so must fight ko
aitkensam [-\]: but this ko... does it risk life of left side :s
]))
(;W[fb]
;B[md]
;W[od]
;B[oe]
;W[ne]C[Closemiss [3d\]: at least b has fewer eyes
]
;B[mf]
;W[nf]C[Closemiss [3d\]: shouldn't b just give in?
RubberDuck [?\]: This sequence could go wrong for Black
]))
(;W[kq]
;B[hq]
;W[jo]
;B[gr]C[RubberDuck [?\]: The stones to the left are completely dead
]))
(;B[bg]
;W[gi]
;B[hi]
;W[fg]
(;B[hh]
;W[dg]
;B[fh]
;W[cf]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Slight improvement
])
(;B[eg]
;W[hh]
;B[gh]
;W[fh]
;B[gg]
;W[ff]
;B[bj]
;W[gp]
;B[ai]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Black cant be ataried either end. This could go very wrong for black
])))
(;B[as]
;W[fb]
;B[ar]
(;W[ea]C[aitkensam [-\]: lower side aji is pretty nasty...
]
;B[ca]
;W[ab]
;B[bb]
(;W[bd]
;B[ac]
;W[fa]
;B[aa]C[Uberdude [3d\]: start c19
aitkensam [-\]: e19 can c19
])
(;W[fa]
;B[aa]
;W[ba]
;B[ac]
;W[da]
;B[cb]))
(;W[ca]C[Uberdude [3d\]: you think it's alive like a tripod group but it's not, i made that mistake on OGS once
]
;B[ba]
;W[bb]
;B[cb]
;W[aa]
;B[bd]
;W[be]
;B[ab]
;W[ac]
;B[ad]
;W[ea]
;B[ab]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Sorry,like this
RubberDuck [?\]: OK so F18 is bigger than it looks
]))
(;B[dj]
;W[gj]
;B[dk]
;W[fj]
;B[hj]
;W[ii]
;B[fh]
;W[gi]
;B[hi]
;W[gh]
;B[hh]
;W[gg]
;B[hg]
;W[gp]
;B[gf]
;W[fg]
;B[kg]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Also no problem
]))
(;W[ji]
;B[ei]
(;W[gj]
;B[hj]C[Uberdude [3d\]: inspired by shuei
RubberDuck [?\]: Jippee, but a little expensive to prepare
])
(;W[fi]
;B[gj]
;W[di]
;B[eh]
;W[cj]
;B[dh]
;W[ch]
;B[cg]
;W[bh]
;B[dj]
;W[dk]
;B[ck]
;W[dj]
;B[bj]
;W[ci]
;B[bg]
;W[bk]
;B[cl]
;W[aj]
;B[ah]
;W[bi]
;B[ag]
;W[ai]C[aitkensam [-\]: poor w :(
]
;B[bl]
;W[dg]
;B[eg]
;W[df]
;B[al]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Looks like white cant escape
]))
(;W[ii]
;B[kk]
;W[lk]
;B[ji]
;W[gj]
;B[ll]
;W[ml]
;B[mk]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Black is too fast
]))
(;B[ei]
;W[gj]
;B[fi]
;W[hj]
;B[im]
;W[dj]C[RubberDuck [?\]: E11 fails:
]))
(;B[go]
;W[fn]
;B[ir]
;W[kq]
;B[hq]
;W[jo]
;B[gr]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Looks odd:
]))
(;W[hr]
;B[ii]
;W[jj]
;B[gi]
;W[fi]
;B[fh]
;W[gj]
;B[hj]
;W[eh]
;B[fj]
;W[ei]
;B[jh]C[RubberDuck [?\]: This is quite OK for Black, the M7 group is not alive yet
])
(;W[go]
;B[ir]
;W[kq]
;B[hq]
;W[jo]
;B[hp]
;W[fp]C[kmr [3d?\]: j6 looks almost dead group
]
(;B[hr])
(;B[jp]
;W[jq]
;B[hr]
;W[fr]
;B[on]
;W[nr]
;B[ii]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Letting P6 come in sente hurts
]))
(;W[gp]C[RubberDuck [?\]: This is no good
]
;B[go]
;W[fn]
;B[hp]
;W[hq]
;B[gq]
;W[fp]
;B[ir]
;W[hr]
;B[kr]
;W[is]
(;B[kq]C[wareware [2k\]: g10?
])
(;B[gi]
;W[eh]
;B[kq]C[RubberDuck [?\]: White is hopeless
])))
(;B[gk]
;W[hn]
;B[gm]
;W[in]
;B[fb]C[RubberDuck [?\]: This looks ok for Black
]))
(;B[kq]
;W[kr]
;B[lq]
(;W[lr]
;B[mq]
;W[mr]
;B[np]
;W[mp]
;B[nr]
;W[or]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Loses points in the centre but keeps whites bottom side from dying wholesale
])
(;W[mr]
;B[lr]
;W[ls]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Whites whole lower side lacks eyes. After giving up F6 this is less of an issue. Black could have asked the question first.
]))
(;B[ni]
;W[dm]
;B[cm]
;W[gl]
;B[gk]
;W[gm]
;B[hk]
;W[fk]
;B[fj]
;W[ek]
;B[dl]
;W[ej]
;B[gi]
;W[fi]
;B[ii]
;W[gj]
;B[hj]
;W[jj]
;B[fh]))
(;W[gp]
;B[ml]
;W[kk]
;B[ni]
;W[qm]
;B[rn]
;W[om]
;B[pm]
;W[pl]
;B[pn]
;W[pi]C[RubberDuck [?\]: We get an exciting life and death problem, and Black is not far behindeven if White lives
]))
(;B[el]
;W[gn]
(;B[fo]C[RubberDuck [?\]: This is a ladder
]
;W[fp]
;B[go]
;W[ho]
;B[gp]
;W[gq]
;B[ep]
;W[hp])
(;B[hp]
(;W[kq]
;B[fo]
;W[jo]
;B[in]
;W[go]
;B[fp]
;W[gp]
;B[gm]C[RubberDuck [?\]: This is a ladder breaker, now what?
])
(;W[hq]
;B[gq]
;W[kq]
;B[fo]
;W[ho]
;B[fp]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Looking good for Black
]))))
(;B[ln]
;W[kj]
;B[jq]
;W[jr]
;B[kq]
;W[kr]
;B[lq]
;W[mr]))
(;W[ln]
;B[jq]
;W[jr]
;B[gr]
;W[gp]
;B[fp]
;W[fo]
(;B[go]
;W[dn]
(;B[cm]
;W[ho]C[RubberDuck [?\]: not working yet
])
(;B[hp]C[Nyanjilla [-\]: what would it need to make it work?
RubberDuck [?\]: Better timing
]))
(;B[ir]C[Nyanjilla [-\]: ^__^
]
;W[hr]
;B[hq]
;W[is]
;B[hp]C[RubberDuck [?\]: ?like this
])))
(;W[in]
;B[hm]
;W[hn]
;B[ho]
;W[gn]
;B[jo]
;W[kk]
;B[jq]C[RubberDuck [?\]: I dont fancy White to hang on in this vaition
RubberDuck [?\]: Connecting K5 is important
]))
(;B[il]
;W[lo]
;B[ln]
;W[in]
;B[jo]
;W[ho]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Ladder
])
(;B[ho]
;W[hl]
;B[jq]
;W[jr]
;B[ir]
;W[hr]
;B[hq]
;W[is]
;B[hp]
;W[ir]
;B[gr]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Black might prefer G7 before this move, but White is unconvincing
]
;W[gn]
;B[lr]
(;W[kq]
;B[nr])
(;W[mr]
(;B[gs])
(;B[kr]
;W[kq]
;B[jo]
;W[lq]
;B[gs]
;W[ls]
;B[es]))))
(;W[hl]
;B[jq]
;W[jr]
;B[kr]
;W[ir]
;B[kq]
;W[ho]
;B[mr]
;W[nr]
;B[on]
;W[lr]
;B[lq]
;W[mq]
;B[ls]
;W[ns]
;B[oo]
;W[np]
;B[pp]
;W[ln]
;B[lo]
;W[in]
;B[or]
;W[ms]
;B[kp]
;W[lr]
;B[ks]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Black wins by double Ko. This sequence is not definitive
RubberDuck [?\]: But we can understand why Junnan paused after K4
]))
(;W[kr]
;B[il]
;W[jk]
;B[lk]
;W[kk]
;B[hm]
;W[jh]
;B[gr]
;W[gp]
;B[fp]
;W[fo]
;B[go]C[RubberDuck [?\]: This all looks dangerous for White
]))
(;B[im]
;W[lk]
;B[on]
;W[mj]
;B[oo]
;W[np]
;B[jq]
;W[jp]
;B[kp]
;W[kq]
;B[lq]
;W[jr]
;B[kr]
;W[jq]
;B[mr]
;W[nr]
;B[or]
;W[ms]))
(;B[km]
;W[om]
;B[nl]
;W[qm]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Looks OK for White
])
(;B[ml]
;W[lm]
;B[kn]
;W[ll]C[polubola: yes b has to decide which side he wants to emphasize
]
;B[nl]
;W[jl]C[maciek [2d\]: B 08 could be better than atari at n8
RubberDuck [?\]: Now Black is weaker with L6 but has good chances to take the whole right side
polubola: n5 n6 maneuver looked so impatient and imature
]
;B[im]
;W[om]
;B[pm]))
(;B[lq]C[polubola: m3 n2 k3?
]
;W[mr]C[Uberdude [3d\]: is m3 and k3 shape?
]
;B[jq]
;W[jr]
;B[kr]
;W[jp]C[nonosse [2k\]: N5?
]
;B[kq]
;W[kp]
;B[lp]
;W[lo]
;B[ir]
;W[hr]
;B[js]
;W[gq]
;B[mo]
;W[ln]C[r0n1n [2d\]: woaw
]
;B[ls]
;W[np]
;B[lr]C[r0n1n [2d\]: i did not expect that kind of result
]
;W[pm]C[r0n1n [2d\]: seems good for white
polubola: looks good for w
YoungPro [6d\]: this is terrible
polubola: yeah
RubberDuck [?\]: This would not be good enough for Black, no follow up attacks
]))
(;W[jo]
;B[jp]
;W[jn]
;B[lq]))
(;W[im]C[RubberDuck [?\]: if here
]
;B[jq]
;W[jp]
;B[ip]
;W[kq]
;B[jr]
;W[ir]
;B[kr]
;W[lq]
;B[hq]C[RubberDuck [?\]: game over, so White wont do that
])
(;W[ip]
;B[jo]
;W[kp]
;B[go]
;W[fr]
;B[no]
;W[np]
;B[nm]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Black will be hoping for this:
Hanarou [1k\]: るか獅子ぬ炉ふてりれ新塗る與那や寝よく湯沿い目ミニ世ぬ世シリア陸り反り爪か他よしりぬ世の、手
RubberDuck [?\]: I think Charles is trying to fix the size of the lower side 
])
(;W[nm]
;B[jq]
;W[hq]
;B[lq]
;W[mr]
;B[jp]C[Shenron [1d\]: Shouldn't b just invade directly or reduce after big points are gone?
]
;W[im]C[RubberDuck [?\]: This way black should live, but he loses on the right side
]))
(;B[qd]
;W[rb]
;B[rc]
;W[qb]
;B[nm]C[RubberDuck [?\]: Now White will have to invade the riht side
]))
(;B[cm]
;W[fp]
;B[lq]
;W[mr]
;B[jq]
;W[jp]
;B[kp]
;W[jr]
;B[kr]C[Shenron [1d\]: B can invade but w looks fine
RubberDuck [?\]: Black can still make trouble
]))
(;W[ce]
;B[fr]
;W[fs]
;B[gs]
;W[es]
;B[lq]C[Uberdude [3d\]: because i don't think white wants to let black into the lower side with o5 n5 o2 o7 m3 
]
;W[mr]
;B[hr]
;W[fp]
;B[hq]
;W[hp]
;B[ip]C[RubberDuck [?\]: lets look at some option:
Shenron [1d\]: Too early for this?
RubberDuck [?\]: This black group looks hard to kill
RubberDuck [?\]: Certainly too early
Uberdude [3d\]: is h2 correct?
]))
